Countering the core conservative belief: "Lazy/worthless people deserve to die"


I came across this old thread on reddit-logo. The question brings out the core Conservative belief that some people are lazy or "worthless" and "why should I pay for lazy people" or "why should I have to work for someone else to live off my labor?"

Many, many people on this thread say outright that people who they deem "lazy" don't deserve food or shelter or anything a human needs to live.

Is there a good counter to this talking point? It's pretty disgusting TBH being confronted with this. I know it's what they really believe but it still stings to read it out over and over again.

I don't understand how some people can think humans don't have an inherent right to exist. Not very "pro-life" of these people.

"Lazy" is an opinion and our society is built to treat people who aren't helping a Capitalist make profit or become a Capitalist themselves like they're burdens on society.

Life isn't fair, it never has and it never will be. Maybe some of your money goes to help a person who doesn't "work as hard as you"? There's also people who are born millionaires, people who have investments paying them for no work, people who win lotteries and jackpots or marry into wealth and never have to lift a finger again.

Forcing people to work in order to live doesn't sound fair to me. It sounds like slavery with extra steps. What kind of freedom do we truly have if we can't choose to withold our labor or check out of the system altogether?


I'm struggling a little mentally with feeling guilt around my failing job search. Technically I'm working on building three income streams, maybe four, but it feels like "failure" because I'm not making enough just yet to cover all bills. It's not for a lack of trying but there's ti.es where I have no energy to do much and it makes me feel terrible. This part of Conservatism always drove me up a wall. Hopefully some of you have good ways to fight against it.

in reply to MayoPete [he/him, comrade/them]

Your money is already going going to assholes who don't need to do shit because they just happen to own the company you work at. Why be mad if that money was spread around to people who actually need it instead of just going to a few billionaires? You hate people you consider "lazy" enough that you think they should starve and that it's not worth helping anyone else if it means helping ONE "lazy" person?

The Trump regime just censors scientific information it does not like, even though the American taxpayers paid for it.
Any info that reveals the consequences of the fossil fuel business model is suppressed.
They prefer a population of ignorant sheep.

latimes.com/environment/story/…

reshared this

The Trial of Ayla King

The First of the Stop Cop City RICO Cases Goes to Trial

crimethinc.com/2025/07/06/the-…

Defense fund:
fjc.givingfuel.com/free-speech…

#Atlanta #Stop #Cop #City #CrimethInc @CrimethInc

Japan’s Government Pension Investment Fund (GPIF), the world’s largest pension fund, reported a significant $61.1 billion loss in the first quarter of 2025 (January–March), marking its first across-the-board quarterly loss since mid-2022.

franknez.com/worlds-largest-pe…

#japan #economy

Something we had always known, or at the very least had suspicions about, is now revealed with primary source evidence.

Sky News: #Israeli soldier describes in chilling detail the arbitrary killing of civilians in #Gaza
news.sky.com/story/israeli-sol…

System Integration Market Estimated to Experience a Hike in Growth by 2035


The new market report titled ‘System Integration Market,’ published by Roots Analysis is one of the most sought-after solutions for businesses operating in the System Integration Market.

The system integration market size is projected to grow from USD 520.9 billion in 2025 to USD 1,521 billion by 2035, representing a CAGR of 11.31% during the forecast period till 2035. The report will help readers stay updated with the latest market trends and maintain their competitive outlooks in the modern-day fast-paced business environment. The report comes with a concise summary of the details regarding the historical market data, current market trends, future growth prospects, product landscape, key marketing strategies, technological progress, as well as the emerging market trends and opportunities. The System Integration Market is anticipated to expand significantly. However, the latest report is mainly intended for readers interested in this specific business space and is available in the forms of PDF and spreadsheet.

System Integration Market [strong]Characterization:[/strong]

Market Scope and Market Size:

The System Integration Market is broadly segmented on the basis of Focus on Distribution by Type of Drug Class, Target Disease Indication, Type of Therapy (Monotherapies and Combination Therapies), Route of Administration and Key Geographical Regions. The segmental growth helps the reader get a lucid picture of the niche pockets of growth, as well as the strategies deployed by the market players to drive the growth of these segments. This section of the report helps them understand and determine the core application areas and the differences between the target markets. The report scrutinizes the System Integration Market in terms of market size & volume and significant information pertaining to product bifurcation and application overview.

Key Market Contenders:

This particular section of the report covers all the necessary details of the renowned market players operating in the System Integration Market. The report goes on to elucidate various marketing strategies employed by companies across this industry. Information on the shareholdings of these players in the global market has also been included in this report. Moreover, the document presents a detailed account of the market size based on geographical segmentation. It also covers the product portfolio, their application landscape, and sales and revenue predictions of the regional fragments of the global market.

Key players

Accenture (Ireland), Atos (France), Capgemini (France), CGI (Canada), Cisco (US), Cognizant (US), Dekk, Deloitte (UK), DXC (US), Flowgear (South Africa), Fujitsu (Japan), HCL (India), HPE (US), IBM (US), Infosys (India), Microsoft (US), Oracle (US), TCS (India), and Wipro (India).

The section of this report focusing on the competitive terrain of the System Integration Market endows the reader with every significant detail and information about the leading competitors on the market. The report provides an exhaustive study and accurate statistics on revenue (on both global and regional levels) related to the prevalent competition in the market. The report offers additional details on this fundamental market segment, including major businesses, company description, total revenue & sales, recent developments, latest product launches, and revenue accumulated by these players over the forecast period.

Main chapters covered in this report:

Part 01: Market Overview

Part 02: Market Size, by regions

Part 03: Market Revenue, by countries

Part 04: Market Competition, by key players

Part 05: Company Profiles

To get sample report, click on the link

rootsanalysis.com/system-integ…

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My debit card's "fraud protection":

1. Regularly flags payments to subscription services as potential fraud even though I've used them for years, paying with the same debit card, and in spite of the fact that I've indicated many times that I trust these services; and
2. Has never identified a real instance of fraud

Whatever they're doing to detect potential fraud, it has a large false positive rate and does not seem adaptive (at least in my case). It's especially odd to me that this bank asks if I've authorized transactions it flagged as potentially fraudulent, I indicate no, this is not fraud, and yet the system continues to flag transactions with the same vendor as potentially fraudulent. I'm giving it a reinforcement signal that couldn't be more clear!

Edit: this post is not a request for banking or financial advice, nor an invitation to critique my choices. I'm venting about what seems to be a poor algorithm and if you have any comments or insights into that particular topic I'm happy to hear them.

#DebitCard #banking #fraud #FraudProtection #FraudDetection #cybersecurity #InfoSec

This entry was edited (3 weeks ago)
in reply to Anthony

I don't know where you live, but in the US the relevant consumer protection laws for credit vs debit vary pretty dramatically. You're far more protected using a credit card than a debit card for purchases. With debit card fraud, they can drain your account of money you actually have; with credit, they're just borrowing money in your name - you haven't lost anything until you actually make a credit card payment. Furthermore, the maximum liability for credit fraud is $50; the maximum for debit fraud can be the total amount stolen, depending on when you report it.

I suspect your bank has their fraud settings tuned so high because debit card fraud can be catastrophic. If someone fraudulently uses your debit card fraudulently and drains your account, you may start bouncing checks, lose your ability to buy food or pay rent/mortgage, etc. Those things carry fees, fines, and long-lasting consequences that, even after the fraudulent money is returned (which can take a long time), you'll still have to deal with. It's especially risky for people who have limited funds - a few bounced check or late fees can be the difference between staying afloat and sinking into an inescapable debt cycle.

Additionally, if you fail to notice a fraudulent transaction for more than 60 days on a debit card, you lose any legal protection; that money is gone unless your bank decides out of the goodness of its heart to reimburse you. I don't know any banks that would do that.

I highly doubt they have per-customer tuning of their system-wide fraud monitoring software. Furthermore, the new hotness (as of a few years ago anyway) in scams is subscription services, where you make a purchase but the vendor signs you up for recurring subscription, and makes impossible to cancel. I don't pretend to know the inner workings of fraud detection algorithms, but it seems reasonable that recurring subscriptions to niche things could trigger this. Without knowing your details, it's hard to guess why they're flagging, and it'd all be speculation anyway, but it's possible that the vendor you're subscribing to has been flagged as fraudulent by other customers - maybe they used dark patterns and tricked people into subscriptions, like many US Republican organizations were doing in the run-up to the 2024 elections. Maybe they make it difficult to unsubscribe, so customers report it as fraud to get the charges to stop. Maybe the payment processor has actually been fraudulently charging customers (it's not uncommon for small businesses to get compromised and have their systems used for fraud-adjacent activities like validating stolen card numbers).

At the end of the day it seems like being moderately annoyed by false positives is a better outcome than being financially ruined by a false negative; your bank is probably tuning their software with that in mind. Even if you're in a financial situation where fraud won't affect you, they likely have customers who aren't so lucky.

If it's a source of that much frustration for you, you always have the option of switching banks, or switching your subscriptions to a different payment method. I highly doubt you'll have much luck getting them to re-tune their entire system just to avoid the inconvenience of a fraud alert, especially in the context of debit card transactions.

in reply to Mathaetaes

Long post

You are now the second person who has 'splained at me how banking and credit works, without knowing a single thing about my circumstances or the nature of the account I'm using. You didn't ask any clarifying questions, nor inquire into whether I was seeking advice (which I'm not), before writing all that--including a suggestion to switch banks, which is absurd. What is going on out there that people think this is a good thing to do at someone on the internet?

I was commenting on the lousy nature of their fraud detection algorithm and how it fails to respond appropriately to clear feedback. Regardless of the level of risk involved, a vendor that the customer has stated is safe over a dozen times should not be flagged as potentially fraudulent. Doing so is wasting everyone's time, attention, and resources, and detracts from the purpose of a fraud alert. Alerts don't tend to function when there are too many false positives. If you work at a bank and have insights into why this algorithm might exhibit such poor behavior, I'm all ears. If you want to vent along with me, great. Otherwise what are you doing?

Unknown parent

mastodon - Link to source

Zennblack

That's not cat abuse! Those fuckers try to kill you by tripping you. I talked to a client whose cat brought baby socks to the dog. Kitty hopped the baby gate that kept sock eating dog outta laundry room. Dog had $3000 ER bill! Cats are devious.
in reply to pat

The rail systems in China and Western Europe rely on high population densities but simply don't exist throughout most of the United States. In order to justify such rail systems in the United states, the population density of the country would have to rise by a factor of nearly 10. Actually doing that would bring about a huge ecological disaster, because much of the north American continent is already straining in a number of different critical resources such as water, and the amount of food production we could expect to see from the United States would drop catastrophically which would be a humanitarian disaster for huge swaths of the world.

When Europeans criticize Americans, they're continuing their long and storied history of trying to export their bad ideas mindlessly and end up killing a bunch of people in other continents. In the few cases that they were successful, they apologize for it later but obviously they don't feel sorry enough to stop trying to do it.

Video: Relentless Israeli attacks on Gaza as ceasefire talks resume
https://www.aljazeera.com/video/newsfeed/2025/7/7/video-relentless-israeli-attacks-on-gaza-as-ceasefire-talks-resume?utm_source=flipboard&utm_medium=activitypub

Posted into Middle East News @middle-east-news-AlJazeera

Why are local energy consumers subsidizing data centers?

Answer: Because Big Tech are corporate welfare scammers

"The truth is, these data centers will create very few permanent jobs, but will create staggering costs for electricity ratepayers and everyone else across our state."

Data centers are total scam on local communities.

womenspress.com/why-are-local-…

Extract of Letter from
US Rep Anna V. Eskamani, PhD (FLA-47),
Jul 7, 2025

”Last week, four of my fellow state lawmakers and I traveled deep into the Everglades to visit Florida’s newest immigrant detention camp, a remote, mosquito-infested facility now being called by the State of Florida ‘Alligator Alcatraz’.

“Despite our statutory authority and duty to conduct oversight visits of state detention centers, we were denied access.
1/4

#Florida #AlligatorAlcatraz #ICE #DeSantis #Gop #Trump

Unknown parent

mastodon - Link to source

Annother

Extract of Letter from
US Rep Anna V. Eskamani, PhD (FLA-47),
Jul 7, 2025

[#Florida : Call to Action]
“We are demanding answers, filing records requests, and sounding the alarm. But we need your voice, too.

“Consider signing this petition demanding that the Florida Department of Emergency Management focus on hurricane response, not detaining immigrants in harsh conditions and with no due process.”

thepetitionsite.com/takeaction…

4/4

#Florida #AlligatorAlcatraz #ICE #DeSantis #Gop #Trump

nypost.com/2025/07/07/us-news/…

A pediatrician has been fired over a vile post suggesting that the more than 80 killed in the horrific Texas floods — including dozens of kids — were Trump supporters who got “what they voted for.”

Dr. Christina B. Propst drew widespread scorn following the disparaging, since-deleted post under her old Facebook username, Chris Tina, according to Mediaite.

“May all visitors, children, non-MAGA voters and pets be safe and dry,” Probst wrote in the now-viral post.

Heard chanting and marching while doing yardwork, zipped over to check it out, and…

…lo and behold! an emergency protest in favor of immigrants rights, organized by miracmn.com in response to the SCOTUS threatening birthright citizenship.

Despite the apparent short notice, folks brought their game. Got a couple of photos (with permission). The guillotine actually moves up and down while the rider pedals!

Maya Khadra: Liban:
Série de bombardements israéliens touchant le sud et la vallée de la Békaa. L’intensité des frappes d’aujourd’hui égale la force des bombardements pendant la guerre.
C’est une réponse à l’entêtement du Hezbollah qui refuse le désarmement et qui risque d’entraîner le Liban encore une fois dans une guerre que les Libanais n’ont pas choisie. En effet, la proposition de l’envoyé US spécial Tom Barrack de désarmer le Hezb n’a pas eu de réponse officielle libanaise. La milice, quant à elle, a refusé catégoriquement le désarmement.
Encore un échec pour le Président de la République et le Premier ministre. x.com/mayakhadra/status/194196…

"Israeli occupation forces arrested colleague Nasser al-Laham, destroyed the contents of his home, and confiscated his personal phones."

x.com/AlMayadeenNews/status/19…

#Haaretz is adding that #IDF arrested this morning (Monday) the chief editor of the Palestinian news agency Ma'an. Al-Laham is also the manager of the West Bank offices of the Lebanese channel Al-Mayadeen, which is affiliated with Hezbollah. According to Maan, last night IDF forces arrested him at his home in the village of al-Doha in the Bethlehem area, and during the arrest the forces caused destruction in his house. It was also reported that al-Laham is expected to be brought to the Ofer court this coming Thursday for a hearing on extending his detention. The IDF has not yet provided a response on the matter.

@palestine
@israel
#GazaGenocide #WestBank #PressFreedom

in reply to oatmeal

One of the reporters of this item is Jack Khoury. AFAIK, he was one of the first Israeli journalists working in mainstream media to publish evidence of the genocide in Gaza on his social media account.

[December 2023] "The video now circulating from northern Gaza. Journalist Anas Sharif is releasing documentation from the Jabalia refugee camp. In the background, a boy can be seen carrying out the body of a girl in pouring rain. In Jabalia, they report finding 15 bodies in a state of decay inside a school. According to the Gaza Health Ministry, the death toll has risen to 18,608 killed and more than 50,000 wounded since the start of the war."

xcancel.com/KhJacki/status/173…

#GazaGenocide

A new report by Allianz Research warns that this summer’s extreme heat could cut Europe’s GDP by up to 0.5 percentage points in 2025, likening a single day over 32°C to "half a day of national strikes."

#ClimateChange #ClimateCrisis #Economy #LabourRights

en.mdn.tv/8YUu

in reply to Fou

Θυμήθηκα το άρθρο εξαιτίας του post της @Otinanai kafeneio.social/@Otinanai/1148…

#RFK 's proposal to let #BirdFlu spread through poultry could set us up for a pandemic, experts warn livescience.com/health/flu/rfk…
in reply to McNadoMD

It’s amazing how this thread filled up with “but Democrats won’t immediately give me <insert policy here> and I want it now!”

To those critics, I offer another thought: if you sit on the sidelines, never voting until a candidate offers you everything on your wishlist, you will never get closer to your ideals. Because you knew that Trump would actually move us AWAY FROM whatever it is you wanted.

At least we don’t have anybody here pretending Harris would have been doing the same things Trump is doing. Because I have LITERALLY seen that nonsense on Fedi. I’m not sure how detached from reality one must be to not see the differences between a year ago and today.

Ein Zeitraffervideo aus Texas schockiert: Innerhalb von nur zehn Minuten zeigt es das fatale Tempo der Sturzflut, die über 80 Menschen das Leben kostete – darunter viele Kinder. Naturgewalt in voller Wucht. 🌊😢 #Texas #Flut #Naturkatastrophe #newz

👉 n-tv.de/mediathek/videos/panor…

Die Gohrischheide brennt seit Tagen: Über 2.100 Hektar Wald sind zerstört – mehr als im ganzen Jahr sonst in Deutschland. Einsatzkräfte kämpfen unter extremen Bedingungen mit gepanzerter Technik, Löschrobotern & Hubschraubern gegen die Flammen auf ehemaligem Truppenübungsplatz. #Gohrischheide #Waldbrand #Feuerwehr 🔥🚒🌲 Mehr Infos: n-tv.de/mediathek/videos/panor…
#newz

hey, if you're an American living in the USA, one little thing you can do is help make it absolutely socially unacceptable to work for ICE. what does this look like? say it to your friends and family. bring it up casually. post about it. make it an issue in your neighborhood if one of your neighbors gets a job with ICE or DHS. ostracize and exclude. you don't have to be rude, just make sure people know it's an ethical/moral choice you don't accept.

So touching--the 6 Supine Court bigots preserve parents' "right" to deny their children a full education in order to misinform and lie to them. So respectable.

theguardian.com/us-news/2025/j…

This entry was edited (3 weeks ago)

Amazonで2千円台くらいで売ってそう

NTTドコモ、6980円のスマートウォッチ発売 - CNET Japan : 👀
---
japan.cnet.com/article/3523519…

“French historian who made it into Gaza tells Israeli media of Israel’s crimes”

by Skwawkbox @skwawkbox @palestine
@israel

“Haaretz recounts what Prof Jean-Pierre Filiu found when he got into Gaza and why Israel won’t allow western journalists in”

skwawkbox.org/2025/07/06/frenc…

#Press #Haaretz #Gaza #WestBank #Palestine #Resistance #Israel #Genocide #Terrorism #WarCrimes #Hamas #PermanentCeasefireNoW #SettlerColonialism #Zionism #Barbarity #BloodLust

reshared this

The news will tell you that SHE is a Hamas member.
The moment they rescue a child under the rubble after the #IsraelTerroristState BOMBED another house full of civilians.
A G A I N.
@psoeeuropa
#fuckisrael #FreePalestine #hatehatetheiof
Video via #UpScrolled
This entry was edited (3 weeks ago)

Sozan reshared this.

Höcke liest Sellner: „Harmloser“ als Merz journalistenwatch.com/2025/07/… Ich spreche mit jedem und höre mir alle Argumente an. Das gilt besonders, wenn ein Begriff die öffentliche Debatte so maßgeblich bestimmt hat, wie aktuell der Titel dieses Buches: »Remigration«. Von Björn Höcke auf Telegram Die Idee steht im Raum — und ist so wichtig, daß bei der Urteilsbegründung zur Aufhebung des Compact-Verbots ausdrücklich darauf […] #news #press

"Jurnalul de realitate" poate fi un instrument puternic în procesul de refacere a percepției după o experiență cu un narcisist. 📖✨

După ce ai trecut prin manipulare narcisistă, mintea poate fi plină de confuzie și îndoieli despre ce este real și ce nu. Scrisul într-un jurnal te ajută să-ți ancorezi gândurile în realitate, să-ți observi sentimentele și să discerni între faptele obiective și distorsiunile create de abuz.

Acest proces sprijină consolidarea propriei identități și recapătă încrederea în propria judecată. Este un spațiu sigur unde îți poți procesa experiențele fără teama de a fi criticat sau invalidat.

Dacă te lupți cu efectele unui narcisist, încearcă să ții un "jurnal de realitate" zilnic — notează ce s-a întâmplat, cum te-ai simțit și ce înveți despre tine în fiecare zi. Pas cu pas, îți vei recăpăta perspectiva. 💪🌱 #NarcissisticAbuseRecovery #MentalHealth #SelfCare

#Palestine / DellaPergola, leading Israeli demographer, questions Gaza death toll study methodology

Prof. Sergio DellaPergola, a renowned demographer at Hebrew University and international authority on Jewish population statistics, critiques a study by Prof. Michael Spagat estimating around 91,400 deaths in Gaza.

[...] Regrettably, it is clear that the number of deaths in Gaza grows daily, and the results reported in the Spagat et. al survey, and in critiques of the survey, require revision. Nonetheless, it would have been better if, before publishing the figure of 100,000 deaths in Gaza, Haaretz had checked the facts, or at least added a question mark to the rounded figure.

DellaPergola, who is a specialist in demographic research, argues the research has significant methodological flaws despite being rejected by a medical journal but published independently.

Key concerns include non-random sampling, potential duplicate counting due to displaced families, and statistical inconsistencies. When the study's prisoner count estimates are compared to known figures, DellaPergola suggests the death toll may be closer to 34,000 - aligning with other systematic checks.

DellaPergola calls for more rigorous fact-checking before publishing casualty figures.

haaretz.com/opinion/2025-07-06… or archive.ph/T4w8u

@academicchatter @palestine
@israel
#GazaGenocide #PeerReview

This entry was edited (3 weeks ago)
in reply to oatmeal

[follow up]

Professor Michael Spagat responds to criticism of the Gaza Mortality Survey that estimated around 100,000 deaths. He addresses multiple errors in critic Sergio DellaPergola’s analysis, clarifying that Gaza’s Health Ministry primarily uses hospital morgue data, not just family reports. Independent researchers have verified the ministry’s detailed casualty lists as reliable. Spagat explains the survey’s systematic sampling methodology and notes that DellaPergola contradicted himself by first dismissing then later citing the same Health Ministry data. The survey found evidence of significant undercounting, with many deaths unrecorded due to strict documentation requirements and logistical challenges.

[…] DellaPergola continues to critique our sampling procedures, which are described briefly in the body of the article and in more detail in its appendix. He writes that we explained that “once a certain geographic counting cell reached ten households that agreed to participate, the count there was considered complete.” But in practice the survey was conducted as follows: let’s assume that a randomly selected sampling point includes 100 households in tents. The tents are numbered from 1 to 100, and a random number is chosen from them, between 1 and 10. If the number chosen is 4, the interviewers will approach households 4, 14, 24, and so on until 94. If all tent residents agree to be interviewed, that sampling point is finished. If there are refusals — which were rare — the interviewing team will start over from a different random starting point. This is as random as it can be, and willingness to participate in the survey was not a significant factor in it.​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

Hebrew haaretz.co.il/opinions/2025-07… or archive.is/tqFYG

@academicchatter @palestine @israel

roast by mimicry, or sincere anguish?


lol, what's all this drama? techrights.org/n/2025/07/05/Br…

had to read it, to see what this grand critique [ referenced in ] was about...

XD ... is this a joke? it's a joke right? ... it's intentionally making a mockery of those who do that kind of thing, right? this is satire, right? ... right? ... i catch myself in a kind of lingering facepalm where i'm kinda pinching at my brow / third eye... the last example especially clinches is, making is surely a joke... right?

He turns the Wayland debate into politics. The presentation style is very ad hominem, e.g.:


and the "e.g." offered, is a screenshot of his post saying:

Alpine Linux says "No XLibre!" for Political Reasons

Alpine Linux says, "If anyone merges XLibre i will be pursuing a code of conduct violation against them. This is about politics, not just software."


he was quoting "Alpine Linux" (~ or a dev thereof, rather), who were the ones explicitly asserting it was about politics. ... if the quote's spurious fiction he contrived, then surely that's the angle to attack that at... not to try allude some ad hominem lurking between the lines if you look at it the right way, squinting, with your eyes half closed, upside down, in a mirror... hehehe.

so again, i gotta ask...

that was a joke right?

#poeslaw strikes again.

... it's gotta be a joke. it fits as a joke. but it's hard to laugh at... because of the uncertainty... what if they're serious?! then it's not just some ugly-punch-down reductio-absurdist mockery-satire social-commentary humour at those who so lose their minds (... mercury poisoning maybe?), but then it's laughing directly at the tragedy, worsening the injury, triggering worse doubling down into the insane groupthink and poor-me energy drama, and the gestapo dystopian nightmares evoked to protect this perpetually provoked tender wound...

but surely not, right?

it's a joke right?

satirising in sympathy with lunduke, and lunduke just missed that, right?

... ... ... or was it serious?! O_O
(pls no gestapo. !!!)

#fossdrama #lunduke #slander #farce


alright i'll try slap a poll on this too (polls do work on nerdpol.ch right?... not letting me add more than 2 options... looks iffy) ... not that anyone ever comes by here to see n vote...

Pero esta noticia no está mal puesta? Lo gordo es el caso nummaria y a quien le ha caído la pena más fuerte es al asesor fiscal que montó el tinglado para evadir impuestos. Para mí el titular debería ser 80 años de cárcel por diseñar un sistema para evadir impuestos.

La Audiencia Nacional condena ...