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Just giving a little back story on why I do what I do with the weekly purging of non followers...(which by the way there are currently 25 non followers slated to be blocked over the weekend).
Where I come from, I had a group for roughly 3 years. In that 3 years, the group was closing in on 100K members. The group was growing by about 1K people every 2 weeks. That's pretty damn impressive. The group was super busy and everyone that was in there not only enjoyed it but they wanted to be there. The group was well run and there was nothing nefarious going on because we didn't tolerate it. The group ended up getting shutdown with no warning given at all.
I was hell bent on finding another platform that had groups that had a similar group structure as the platform I was on but there really wasn't anything out there. So I had to accept that the group now had to be something like what it is now...a blog.
The thing I liked MOST about having a group was the exclusivity. Everyone had to apply to join. Like I said, those that were in the group wanted to be there so I have that same mentality when it comes to this page.
Those that view this page...want to view it...and therefore should follow. If I see anyone viewing that isn't following...they get blocked in the purge. I'd say close to 500 non followers have been blocked so far.
Come pre installed. As much as it pains me, LTT guy is probably right to a degree as well. Shit needs to work without tinkering. Personally I don't mind some tinkering - enjoy it even. But the average Joanne does not.
There are already computers that come with Linux right out of the box. It’s needs more than that.
You need to be able to walk into a big box store, get a Linux computer right off the shelf, and take it home. That’s what’s needed here.
Once you get people to userstabdnits a different kind of computer they would take to it fine. iPad and chromebooks sell just fine and they don’t run windows or macOS. I refuse to believe Microsoft and Apple are the only ones who can sell a computer.
They exist yes. Go ask the average person on the street the name more than one of them. At best some might know system 76. But can they buy them at the local best buy, apple store, or micro center? Lots of places don't have a micro center. Micro center at least sells Linux and BSD media. I haven't been in 8 months. But for the last 30 years they haven't sold a pre installed system. Much less best buy or apple store.
Being able to do everything a "normie" would do without the need to use a terminal.
And a way for companies to get flatpak as an alternative, i remember a friend of mine who tried to use 'buntu budgie for a while and he needed a software for cartographic stuff.
We got lucky the company of said software (and yes, it needed to be THAT specific software to avoid compat' issues, so no free alternatives were viable even if they were available) used to provide a .deb package, we got forced to change a lot of sys native binaries to make it work and ended up just breaking a lot of other stuff to do so. Flatpaks (fuck snaps) need to be the default option to be available across systems without caring about distros, so anyone can run it on "mandragora linux" if they want to
Some small but important taken-for-granted things functioning like screen and audio sharing/recording in wayland. Yes, I know sometimes with some apps/distros it works. But it needs to work all the time on all reasonably current hardware everywhere. Wayland is getting there, but we're still a ways off and X11 has its own issues. It feels like we're 80% of the way there for feature parity and stability vs Windows and MacOS, but this last 20% stretch is feeling like an eternity. The bugginess and lack of features stretches to multi-monitor support as well. Plus we've got a bunch of distros threatening off and on to remove 32bit libraries, which would really hamper software support that's already anemic to begin with... There's no one single blockbuster issue. It's just little everyday things that produce just enough friction to keep the unwashed masses away.
I'd agree with the: come preinstalled. Most people buy a device and never change the operating system. So it needs to be the preinstalled operating system on the average computer or laptop, wherever people buy those.
(And mind that Linux completely dominates the market on servers. So technically, a lot of people use Linux in a way... Just not on desktop computers.)
Two things: 1. Obviously it needs to come pre-installed. This is a really tough hurdle to overcome and I'm not sure how it can be. 2. Security needs a lot of work if Linux is going to lose the small-target advantage.
Pre-installed distro needs to support one-click installation (like .app or .exe).
Pre-installed distro needs to have be easily searchable (for problems, and e.g. searching "chrome DISTRO_NAME" needs to pop up with a link to the one-click installer).
Pre-installed distro needs to run perfectly out-of-the-box, no fiddling with drivers, no needing to issue a random shell command for some random issue.
UI needs to be intuitive. Probably something like KDE. Could maybe do Elementary or GNOME with dash-to-dock or something.
Updates should be easy. Ideally apps can self-update or the apps will indicate if they need an update and have a button opening up an updater that can update all your apps/the OS.
Updates for minor programs need to be hidden/rolled into OS updates. Most people aren't gonna want to see that glibc updated.
Better management of stuff like VPNs (probably not important for the average user, but e.g. NetworkManager's GUI support is kinda shit).
If using GNOME, need to have app indicator stuff pre-installed (if I'm being honest, the fact it's not built-in is absurd).
Needs to come with good basic apps. Some of the default apps included with DEs are kinda shit. There is still no truly good mail client IMO (at least that doesn't look dated AF).
Probably more.
EDIT: Something like Lutris should probably be integrated into the OS. Installing non-Steam games is a minor hassle at the moment IMO.
Pre-installed distro needs to support one-click installation (like .app or .exe).
This defeats a lot of what makes Linux secure. The main reason you don't get malware is because you never run untrusted binaries from the internet and you install everything from trusted sources like your package manager. A non tech savvy person doing this will inevitably hit one of the super rare Linux malware in the wild. Clueless person downloads the wrong installer is the model malware entry case. I also don't see a benefit of just having an app store, you can even show proprietary software by default as long as they can be turned off (I suspect the main reason for one click installation is for downloading proprietary software).
Personally, basically no one I know uses the app stores on windows or macos much. These app stores are actually functional in that they have proprietary apps and allow purchases. There is basically 0 chance Linux will become popular if you can only install things through an app store (especially those that make it hard/impossible to buy proprietary apps). Additionally, desktop Linux is not particularly secure anyway. Flatpaks are helpful here, but most require manual tuning of their sandbox to actually be secure, which the average user is 100% not gonna do. On top of this, what do you do when an app is not available in your curated app store? Do you download it directly online? Do you trust some random repository you find online that can be filled with who knows what at a later point? Or do you just say "oh well sucks to be you I guess?" If you download it directly online, then it may not even have dependency information. If it doesn't embed dependency information, then it's basically useless to your average person. It also has the problem you mentioned of someone downloading the wrong executable. Likewise, the other two options are IMO just not viable.
IMO, the only way for a package manager/app store solution to work is: 1. The platform is built around it from day 1 2. The platform has a large number of developers submitting their packages to it (as opposed to the distro maintainers having to track down changes themselves) 3. The app store has payment methods 4. The app store has proprietary apps 5. The app store has a large number of reviewers that can check the apps submitted in a timely manner 6. Probably bundling dependencies with the apps. 7. The app store has a functional review system with users actually leaving reviews. 8. Going along with the reviews, going through the app store (as opposed to using the package manager directly) may need to be a requirement to encourage reviews, at least at first.
Basically, it needs to be an iOS/Android situation, with a similarly large company backing it. I should also note that it's possible to install malware on iOS/Android, just harder, and the scope is usually less severe because of sandboxing.
EDIT: Also, it's entirely possible to do one-click installs in a "safe" way, by requiring that developers get their apps signed by whoever makes the distro (like macos gatekeeper or whatever it's called).
EDIT 2: I should also note that just being "different" is enough for people not to use something. If something basic, like the way to install apps, is different enough, people may just decide they don't like it. My relatives would likely do this, for instance.
Zero reasonably priced options for support when things go wrong.
Breaking changes caused by updates that make that support necessary.
If my neighbor's Windows or Apple machine breaks they can call Microsoft or Apple, the PC manufacturer or a bunch of different support providers. Microsoft provides free support if one of their updates causes problems.
I can't find any Linux support aimed at home users, only very expensive enterprise support options.
It's amazing how much damage those scammers cause.
Last year I ran into a retired neighbor at Staples buying a new laptop because her existing machine had been hacked. She came back after leaving it running to find someone was logged in remotely. They drained $8k from her retirement account. Turned out 6 months earlier she got a call from "Microsoft" asking to connect to her machine because they "noticed it had a problem."
Have u ever talked to tech support of microsoft as usual user? With such quality ofsupport it would be better that it would none,in the end all their support coming please reboot computer.
Most of the people I know are computer illiterate. They know nothing about PC's and don't care to learn because they think of PCs as appliances. They want word processing, email, photos, and web, and don't give a damn what's going on under the hood. Microsoft support is generally pretty bad, but it's far better than none at all.
That lack of any support (except me) is the only reason I haven't moved friends and family to Linux.
Personally for elderely people I installed mint once and forgot it they using laptops from windows 7 era and they were getting dozens of ads malware so I was to reinstall os almost every half year now this problem gone entirely and yes I am aware very well too about what u are talking about such in my case where I am living nobody gonna ever call for tech support of Microsoft cause they don't know about that it exist and they will ask someone who they know for help about computer if something not work
Ok, let's hereby declare that Debian + Gnome is the official Linux. Everyone who wants Linux to have more users must run Debian and Gnome. First, how do we convince everyone to not use their favorite distros?
my point is thatfor us techie users (i use arch btw) having choice is good. But for the average user it's a big negative actually.
The linux ecosystem needs to standardize on more things to also allow linux development to be worthwile for devs.
Choosing one distro is not enough, when it can decide to rip out and replace half of its subsystems at will. The most stable api on linux for games is win32 ffs! I have linux native builds of games that simply don't run on linux anymore.
I think the problem here is the motivation. The techies are scratching their itches because they can, making more tiling wms and such, but few are motivated to work on things they aren't personally interested in, such as user-friendliness etc. So it's either up to us techies to work on systems we don't use ourselves, or it won't happen.
FreecCAD just released it's first full version and it's a pain to use. Back in 2018 somebody said FOSS CAD software was at least ten years behind the big windows commercial software. I think now it's about fifteen behind.
The software looks nice, but it seems there's no 3D capable hobby-tier. 3D modelling starts at Pro-tier, which is >$700 per year. That's a low price for commercial software, but not a good option for hobbyists
Either: 1. A smarter and wiser population able to discern and care enough that they're being cucked by Microsoft, overcoming the inertia to install Linux. 2. Linux invents a game/feature that is so goddamn appealing that everyone wants in on the action. 2. Preinstallation.
I think it is its image of lack of stability and features; I know there are out there stable distros and almost every well known program has a Linux version, but the image that Linux has had through the years is not that. If Linux overcomes this and gets a better reputation, it would be a great weight lifted for the road ahead of the OS. I hope Proton breaks through the mainstream public and Linux gets more exposed and known out there
There's quite a lot needed from peripheral manufacturers, regarding drivers and utilities. You still can't, for example, just buy any new printer or scanner - you have to check compatibility first.
For the vast majority of users Linux is just a worse deal. Only thing that really comes to mind that Linux does that users care about is that it will support that hardware that Windows 11 will leave behind, and even those users will happily just run Windows 10 without updates and if that bites them in the ass then maybe they’ll upgrade or just ask their IT friend to use a bypass to make Windows 11 at least work on their old hardware.
Otherwise, of the things users actually care about, Linux has worse app support to the point that even pro-Linux users would rather dual-boot that lose access to their games and worse hardware support. Linux also has a problem of not being well understood by a lot of tech folk so if you bring somebody onboard you better be ready to be their only point of support.
ChromeOS is probably the best example against this since it is basically just a browser, the laptops it sells on are substantially better value than their budget counterparts and realistically a lot of the people buying them are parents for their kids so the user’s preference is substantially pushed aside in favour of cost. The SteamDeck is another good counter-example since it essentially refuses to compete with the PC gaming market by calling itself a handheld.
Linux is stuck in the crappy position of needing more users to get more software and hardware support but users need better software and hardware support for Linux to make sense compared to Windows. It’s getting better and Valve’s efforts have steadily brought the Linux gaming percentage up but it’s still the enthusiast OS.
By all means encourage it’s usage though. Linux is a far more open and privacy-respecting option and the more tech folk and basic-usage users that adopt it the better!
I think the hardware compatibility issues may be overstated. It seems (to me) that besides apple silicon, the support for most consumer hardware is pretty robust. this seems especially true of the kinds of hardware casuals use. Im not a tester, but havent seen a dell, hp, or Lenovo with a hardware issue in ages.
For the vast majority of users Linux is just a worse deal.
The vast majority of users only need an office suite, an internet browser, and maybe the ability to play games. Linux does these just fine, with less bullshit than Windows to boot.
The real problem is inertia. People tend to go with what they're familiar with, and most of them are familiar with Windows. And those that might be willing to try a new OS get turned away from Linux due to outdated stigmas about it being harder to use than Windows. While that stigma may still be true for enthusiast distros like Arch, new users are generally steered away from them
I think the big thing that everyone is missing here is that schools and workplaces need to push it into people's lives. For that to happen Linux (or at least one of its distros backed by a hardware distributor) needs to develop killer features for those markets and successfully sell to them in large enough numbers that the average computer user - who does not care what their OS is because they only use it for email and work - will make sure that their at-home setup is compatible with their work machine.
That moment is when market forces will take over and drive real growth in desktop Linux, rather than the tiny little bumps we've seen the past few years thanks to the Steam Deck coming out and MS pissing its users off.
This is how Apple built its marketshare against the Microsoft domination of the 90s. For a long time it was the go-to "school computer", and then those kids grew up and now a huge piece of the tech industry and culture is more or less Apple only. It's unclear if this process can be repeated, since Apple's marketshare was carved out during a time of massive growth in the industry that is unlikely to repeat, but I wouldn't say it's impossible if the right conditions reveal themselves.
I will say that it is highly unlikely that the people here would like the change if it happens - imagine Google slinging fully locked down "linux" machines en masse and everybody else needing to download their kernel fork that's loaded with spyware ("for security reasons") in order to connect to Google Teams for work. Maybe I'm being pessimistic but I just don't see mass adoption of a new OS happening without some kind of fuckery like this that renders the version of Linux that gets mass adopted unrecognizable from the version we're all using now.
The other option is state intervention, as with NeoKylin in China, although the Chinese government seems to be limiting themselves to just government computers with that distro.
While I think that could be really helpful it is worth pointing out that schools in the US have been shoving Chromebooks into the hands of kids for over a decade and the market share sits at about 4%. Now Google's planning to merge Chrome OS into Android.
Yeah I was thinking about that, which is why I pointed out that Apple's plan only worked because of the massive growth in personal computing. Google was able to create marketshare for Android during the massive growth in smartphones, but those conditions haven't existed for anyone for a while.
Generally how these things go is that after the growth phase comes consolidation and monopoly - we're far more likely to see Apple and MS merge into one corporation than we are to see a third option emerge as a serious competitor.
At work us devs and IT folks use both windows and RHEL Linux. I'd say I use windows for business apps and Linux for everything development related except for terminal apps and visual studio. My database work is pretty much 100% linux. Everyone else in the company is likely using windows.
This question comes up every other week. I reject the premise that "more users" is a commonly held objective.
For most linux / OSS projects the objective is to be the best the project can be. Having an active community is usually part of that but "more users" is a low priority.
This most difficult one is probably the fact that 99% of people do not install their operating system.
The device they purchase needs to have a clean and elegant out of box experience like the Mac. Regular folk who are willing to stray from windows don't consider any computer that doesn't come off the shelf with sane defaults. Everything else is arcane to them.
We are not those people. I have to remind myself that not everyone likes to build their own systems.
I do have a friend who wants to buy a framework laptop with Fedora on it because that's what they use in the Laboratory he works in but he doesn't want to assemble it himself he just wants it to come like that.
I think the gap between what the average Linux user thinks is ease of use and what the average non Linux user thinks is ease of use is probably much larger and many devs seem to understand.
I think it would be beneficial to have a completely idiot proof installer that doesn't ask you about partitions or formatting or basically anything just point it towards a drive and it will set up a default installation.
More GUI based means of doing basic stuff. A casual who wants to access some photos from his laptop does not want to figure out how to manually configure samba shares by editing config files in their terminal based text editor.
I think codecs are a much bigger pain in the ass than is ideal. As I understand that there are legal reasons for this but the first time some casual goes to play a video and gets an error message their first thought may not be "let me search Google and figure out what this error message means" their first thought maybe "Linux sucks and can't play videos".
The permission structure that makes Linux so secure makes it a little annoying for casuals. For example, you actively and intentionally go to the default software store, navigate to the updates tab, update a package you've already installed and clearly want, and do so from the official OS repository... This requires that you enter your password to protect you from what exactly? It's not a big deal it takes one second to type my password, but how would you explain this to a casual in a way that makes sense? Your OS is protecting you from potentially rogue acts of official patches to your default text editor.
I think the folder structures are pretty big challenge for converts. On Windows you can find most of the files associated with any given program in your program files folder. On Mac there's an applications folder. On Linux... it's somewhere, don't worry about it. That's not really a fixable one it just is what it is.
For example, you actively and intentionally go to the default software store, navigate to the updates tab, update a package you've already installed and clearly want, and do so from the official OS repository... This requires that you enter your password to protect you from what exactly?
I have never had this happen before across 3 distros, and I really doubt any casual user will have this experience either
Probably the best response here. I'd also add the moment the user has to deal with using the CLI that is it for them. I can't imagine the average consumer going into config files or even dealing with "chmod". It is like auto enthusiasts rolling their eyes at people who don't change their own spark plugs or oil.
I guess it would be reducing the need of terminal usage as much as possible. That's still the only thing a common user struggles with, in my opinion. The rest is just difference or has nothing to do with Linux.
With Linux gaming is rising currently, most common problem is kernel anti-cheat games and it's not Linux problem, for example. What are devs supposed to do? To develop literal Windows kernel compatibility layer or something? But Linux may do stuff on their end to make cheating difficult to keep game studio's happy but that would also mean to stray away from its philosophy. As a general platform, it would be hard to do this anyway. This would be possible per distro basis. Maybe Linux dev circles are already discussing this, maybe not, I don't know honestly.
People who convince themselves they "just aren't good with computers."
In the early 2000s, it was widely thought that everyone who grew up with them would be reasonably competent with them. We now have 20-30 year olds who are still stumped with basic computing concepts like how to reset a forgotten password. I literally ran into this a couple of months ago: Really? You haven't had to do this a dozen times in your life by now? How did you finish college (this person was highly educated)?
I had a similar problem with a couple of friends a few weeks back. They're a couple with a lot of debt, so they usually do everything they can to save money. Then the main water line started leaking.
I asked a few questions, and it turned out they could solder the pipes themselves and save hundreds on hiring a plumber. But the wife kept insisting that they were both too dumb to figure it out and by me saying it's easy to learn she just took it as me calling them stupid (which was a weird bit of gaslighting).
They didn't even look up a video on how to do it. I looked some up as a sanity check, and yeah it's fairly straightforward. .
Learn how to solder copper pipe for DIY plumbing projects. Copper tubing is flexible, bacteria-resistant and easily installed. It’s also environmentally frie...
just took it as me calling them stupid (which was a weird bit of gaslighting).
Glad I'm not the only one who notices this. It's not everyone I meet, but I know quite a few people who double down on their inability to do simple tasks or learn a basic skill... I mostly wonder where it started for these people.
Similar situation, had a buddy recently throw out a pair of $300 headphones because the cable broke.
I disagree on one thing. I think gnome is actually better for laptops and kde is better for desktops. A laptops with gnomes gesture navigation is just so much nicer to use with a trackpad. And with people already being used to phones i think gestures will come naturally to them.
For beginners KDE is much more familiar, and is generally the better pick regardless. I'm not saying this is the best choice for everyone, but it's the best choice when you don't know anything.
Once again im gonna have to disagree. You are right only if someone is used to windows. But many people ONLY use a phone or tablet these days. Gnome is much more familiar when coming from Android or iOS on a mobile platform. Since its more gesture based just like those are.
Especially among younger people i think the main OS will not be windows but Android. Just look at how Samsung is testing out Samsung Dex on their devices and how Chrome OS is moving to android. Windows is more of the productivity, and desktop OS now imo. For daily use like web browsing, media consumption, etc, Android will be more and more common.
If trends continue as they are i expect Linux to be dominant in the server space still, and to gain ground in the gaming space. Mainly as Valve comes out with more plug and play Linux based consoles, and other companies copy them.
Windows will likely remain dominant in the professional and productivity space. Since they cater to companies and allow lots of remote control options, and the ability to monitor employees.
Android will probably be dominant in the casual media consumption, and web browsing space.
Apple kind of does their own thing and so i dont consider them for this. They are in a bit of everything, but mainly focused in the US specifically. Other regions have a lot more Android presence. But just assume Apple has a piece of each pie too.
Personally i do not think Linux can or should compete with Windows in the corporate space. What companies want is control. That control comes at the cost of features, privacy, and autonomy for users. Microsoft is happy to give those up to make more money. The Linux community isnt, and thats a good thing.
So the areas we can probably peel away some market share are in KDE powered gaming desktops, gaming consoles on something like Steam OS or Bazzite, and in touch friendly portable media machines. 2-in-1 Gnome powered laptops. Thats the way i see it anyway.
A multi-billion dollars marketing budget, anti-competitive practices and confidential agreements, blacklisting hardware vendors if they dare proposing an alternative, and of course a legal department the size of a small city to sue all competition out of existence.
In Enterprise: manageability. It's hard to overstate how powerful Windows Group Policy is. Being able to configure every single aspect of the OS and virtually all major applications, Microsoft or otherwise, using a single application that can apply rules dynamically based on user, device, user or device groups, time of day, location, battery level, form factor, etc, etc. Nothing on Linux comes close, especially when simplicity is a factor, and until it does most large organisations won't touch it with a barge pole.
You need to dumb shit down for the majoirty. Jist look at the downward spiral of popular software, and how little the masses really care about ownership or ability to tinker and control what they use.
If you want the masses to use Linux, then you'll need a distro that is as useless as Windows. No technical errors, no forward-facing power user features.
Plus, you'll bring the big corps into Linux with a their shit ideas like rootkits, SaaS, etc. Because if the masses are in Linux, they'll be following the money.
I think with any alternative to big tech the problem is most people are really unwilling to change their habits and make short term compromises. A lot of people know on a surface level that big tech is stealing their data etc. But actually changing their habits goes to far.
Another issue is that its more or less a systemic issue.
To many people aren't even awear of what FOSS even is. The state of Foss and is a bit complicated where you do have organizations and activists advocating for it but also gigantic corporations that use Foss technology and exploit the free labor that goes into it.
There definitely needs to be more activism for FOSS technology and alternatives to big tech. And those alternatives should be open to everyone like Linux is. Of course there are always multiple reasons why something isn't used but I do think it is important to look at a bigger perspective than individual consumer/ in this case users
Adding my voice to the hardware compatibility issue. While most hardware just works, Linux usually lacks the ability to configure the device. Audio interfaces are a good example of this. They work but you can't set the sample rate or enable any custom features on ANY of them.
I believe government regulators should step in and require hardware manufacturers to provide Linux support equal to Windows or Mac. This could be relaxed for low volume or highly specialised devices, but mainstream consumer stuff should be more universal.
They work but you can't set the sample rate or enable any custom features on ANY of them.
Not in my experience. I have a RME card that can be configured via alsamixer (which should work for most cards) and a Focusrite Saphire USB interface that someone wrote a little UI for in which you can even freely route audio to/from different channels and mix busses.
It CAN be configured, but you have to go hunting for the tools to do so.
I've got an old 5.1 surround sound speaker setup attached to my main rig, and in both Cinnamon and KDE (the only two I've tried), you can't use the normal DE's audio control panel to put the thing in 5.1 mode without first installing an old, probably unmaintained tool called ALSAJackRetask. Once you've retasked the jacks, several options for surround appear in the DE's audio control panel. It knows but it can't do.
Do the same thing for CAD software engineers that was done for gamers and gaming. Quality CAD software would move companies to make the switch. Once people use it at work and school, they'll use it at home. I'm hoping the Chinese government's move to Linux will lead to their investing in FreeCAD.
I'm reminded of a video I saw of a woman talking about her dating prospects using M&Ms. She poured a bunch on the table as a metaphor for her dating pool, and slid away M&Ms as she ruled the people they represent out. "8 million people in the city. But half are women slides half of the M&Ms away of the remaining 4 million men, 20% are under 25, slides more M&Ms away" until she got to a point where she had one candy left, and then she shattered it with a meat tenderizer and continued sliding pieces of it away.
You can do that for potential adoptees of Linux, because there are a bunch of filters in series you have to pass through before successfully adopting Linux.
8 billion people on the planet.
Subtract the Sentinelese and Amish and North Koreans and everyone else who just outright doesn't have access to computers. Nothing we can really do about them and in some cases it would be unethical to try.
Now subtract out the people who only use a mobile device like a cell phone or tablet, which are locked to their OSes. Android or iOS is as much a part of the hardware as a microwave oven's firmware is to them. Linux on mobile devices (excluding Android) is in a severely rough state, there's basically no hardware and software combo that is ready for daily driving.
Now subtract out the people who do use a PC or other device, that won't ever install an operating system on a computer themselves. You'll get some of these folks by selling computers with Linux installed in stores and such, though I think you'll have to address a few other points later. I think SteamOS is demonstrating this.
Now subtract the people who might install Linux themselves, say PC builders who would have to install an OS anyway, but bounce off the process of choosing a distro and then installing. The big distributors like Canonical and Fedora tend toward marketing wankshit instead of human language. You can't tell their goddamn websites "I just want the normal end-user desktop version with KDE please." Does "Core" mean our main, central product, or the IoT embedded system version? You kind of have to know Fedora calls their Gnome edition "Workstation" and if you want "normal Fedora but with KDE" that's a "Spin." Then you get the Trendy Fork Of The Month, things like Bazzite and Nobara that pretty much are Fedora or Ubuntu with a theme applied, maybe some actual features in the OS, but often just a redone onboarding process, like I think it's Bazzite that offers a configurator on their website that lets you pick your desktop and such. Defuckulating the onboarding process of major distros might allow us to do away with the Trendy Fork Of The Month.
Now subtract the folks who get a Linux machine up and running and then bounce off of the unfamiliar UI. I'm pretty sure this is Gnome's fault more often than not, Gnome is deliberately hostile to both distro maintainers and end users to the point there are now four DEs that are "We can't do this anymore" forks of Gnome: MATE, Cinnamon, Unity and Cosmic. You'd probably see more people stick with Linux if it was less easy to stumble dick first into Gnome.
Now subtract the people who got this far and then said "My CAD/art/music/office/finance/whatever software doesn't run on this." and had to switch back. In a lot of cases, software like that exists in the FOSS ecosystem but it's significantly inferior, like FreeCAD or GIMP. These are often kept in a deliberately shitty state because some opinionated programmer likes how the code they wrote in 2004 looks in their IDE, so open software continues to be unadoptable and people continue to pay subscriptions to the Captain Planet villains in charge of Microsoft, Apple, Google and Adobe.
I’m gradually concluding that every decision in computer UI has been wrong. Peak UI happened in the 1990s; it’s been downhill ever since. People think terminals are scary, but come on—asking ChatGPT “how do I do this?” and getting three lines that have worked unchanged since 1989 is not harder than watching some tech-bro explain which menus to click… menus that get rearranged every six months so they can find new ways to wedge ads into your ribbon.
21WIRE | Speaker Johnson: From 'Red Heifers' to bring about the reconstruction of the third temple, to legitimizing Israel colonies in occupied Palestine.
A neo-Nazi group inspired by Donald Trump's rhetoric is expanding its reach and reshaping white extremism in America. At the helm is a Texas couple, both born to Ku Klux Klan leaders reut.rs/4ftv4ne
Jewish extremists could go to scripture for God's support of genocide but this guy instead evidently chose to seek Hitler's blessing to wipe out Palestinians.
Really too hard to take that the "never again" crowd, my people, went in one generation from victims to being Nazis.
sshPilot is a desktop application for managing SSH connections. It loads/saves standard .ssh/config entries and make it easy to manage multiple servers.
It fully supports dynamic, remote and local port forwarding, key-pair generation, file transfer to remote machines and more.
Features: - Load/save standard .ssh/config entries (it loads you current configuration) - Full support for Local, Remote and Dynamic port forwarding - Intuitive, minimal UI with keyboard navigation and shortcuts -- Press ctrl+L to quickly switch between hosts), close tabs with ctrl+w and move between tabs with alt+right/left arrow - SCP support for quicly uploading a file to remote server - Generate keypairs and add them to remote servers - Toggle to show/hide ip addresses/hostnames in main UI - Light/Dark themes - Customizable terminal font and color schemes - Free software (GPL v3 license)
The app is currently distributed as a debian package and can be installed on recent versions of Debian (testing/unstable) and ubuntu. Debian bookworm is not supported due to older libadwaita version.
Looks like exactly the kind of thing I've been looking for - a clean and easy to use SSH manager!
One question: how are SSH credentials stored? Is there any option for password protection?
And one feature request: as a long time MobaXterm user on Windows, one feature I've yet to see in a Linux SSH utility is the "multi-execution" mode which let's you send commands to multiple terminals at once.
Passwords are stored using libsecret, you can verify that by looking at GNOME Keyring. Nothing is stored in plain text. And yes, sending initial commands in a planned feature.
Just more immaturity and insanity by those who should know better. Of course Karma would be each team have an old fridge with frozen dildo's for the crypto group members to sit on. Sounds like something Grusom would have at the 2028 L.A. Olympics opening ceremony.
the end of de minimus and this new 80 dollar fee for any product shipped from outside the US is a terrible idea. trump sucks AND NOW ITS AFFECTING ME PERSONALLYYY
it sounds like this is an option for the shipper to pay a flat rate *or* the calculated tariff, for 6 months. this doesn't mean you pay $80 for a $2 item on aliexpress
How will duties be applied following the removal of the de minimis exemption on August 29?
Starting August 29, goods shipped internationally through the postal system will be charged one of the following:
Ad valorem duty: A percentage-based tariff, calculated based on the value of the goods and the tariff rate of the country of origin; or Specific duty: A temporary flat-rate fee of $80 to $200 per item (i.e., package), depending on the country of origin’s tariff rate. This option will be available only for the first six months after the policy goes into effect.
Only packages sent through the international postal network (e.g., U.S.P.S., Royal Mail, etc.) have the option of paying the specific duty instead of the ad valorem duty. After the six-month transition period, all international shipments will default to the ad valorem duty structure. When might a specific duty flat-rate fee apply, and how is the amount determined?
The flat-rate duty is a temporary fee of $80 to $200, based on the country of origin’s tariff rate. This special duty may apply to goods shipped through international postal services (e.g., the United States Postal Service, Royal Mail, etc.) and could apply only during the first six months after the policy takes effect on August 29, 2025.
If a specific flat-rate duty applies, it will replace the percentage-based tariff (the “ad varolem duty”).
We believe the specific flat-rate duty is likely to apply to an entire package or parcel as a whole (e.g., one $80-$200 fee per package), with the ultimate determination made by U.S. Customs.
The rate is based on the IEEPA tariff rate (a special duty rate under U.S. emergency trade rules) for the country where the goods were shipped from (details about these rates can be found in Annex 1 of this Executive Order):
$80 per package or parcel – if the origin country's effective rate is less than 16% $160 per package or parcel – if the rate is between 16% and 25% $200 per package or parcel – if the rate is higher than 25%
If your shipment qualifies, the carrier the brand is shipping your order through, will decide whether to apply the flat-rate duty or continue using the ad valorem method. This flexibility allows some carriers to potentially reduce complexity for smaller, low-value items—but only during the initial six-month transition period.
To learn more about how this may apply, visit How will the specific duty flat-rate fee amount be applied, by item or package?
@meowski @lispi314 no, its an 80 dollar minimum rate per package (I think youre right its not per item) for six months, then its the tarrif rate. these sellers were in the UK where its definitely only but still incredibly excessively 80 dollars.
@lispi314 it says it's to "reduce complexity" so if you buy one or a few items, or something with a simple declared dollar value, there would be no reason to charge a flat rate. they'll just charge you the tariff %. that's what it sounds like based on the link i posted
@lispi314 people are going to be freaking out and doing silly stuff but this isn't that complicated. eventually once the dust settles they'll just update their e-commerce systems and charge the right %. lots of countries charge tariffs and VATs.
@lispi314 it indeed looks like they are actually shooting themselves in the foot cause orange man bad. there is no way you're going to have to pay an arbitrary $80-200 flat fee on every single item you ship from overseas, at least that's not what it says in the link i found. if you find something other than an english person losing their mind over email, let me know
@lispi314 i just asked grok and it says it's either the flat fee or the ad valorem tariff, *whichever is LOWER* until aug 29. so it's literally a discount until the 29th lol
@lispi314 grok is woke as heck but actually i did some coding with it today for client work and it spat out perfect code. saved me some time. it definitely sucks on some things. anything political or controversial, forget it. reddit tier takes.
@icedquinn @lispi314 notice how i looked for another source first before asking grok? grok does cite its sources though. it spat out a list of like 20 web pages. i wouldn't be updating any e-commerce systems based on a quick grok query without confirming. it just confirmed what was in the first link and simplified it
@icedquinn @lispi314 business opportunity to read the actual policy from an official source instead of shutting down your primary source of revenue unnecessarily cause you're freaking out
@meowski @lispi314 considering he changes the policy on a weekly basis quite a lot of companies have begun shutting down US operations
I had many notices come through my desk about it. Some are tentatively reopening, some aren't. People really don't like the idea of the rules changing six times in one quarter.
@icedquinn @lispi314 it definitely adds complexity and prices are going to go up on items, but yea to clarify, this is actually a discount until aug 29th. you get to choose the $80 rate or the tariff %, whichever is lower.
moreover we are $38T in debt so there's really no choice about this we have to pay it down and this is a better way to encourage domestic production rather than simply taxing everyone's income
thought about installing BF6 beta but i realized i don't want to give EA ring0 access with a rootkit to play a mediocre shooter with normgroids instead i wanna play a career based co op game where everyone is new england lobster fishermen
Reminds me of when I was delivering soda in NYC, sweating like a pig during the summer, but then there’d be that one deli where they wanted it put in the walk-in box
I'm recognizing this tactic among fascists all over the world at this point, and I hate that it continues to work: 1. Make an absolutely absurd claim about your opponent. The more insane, the better. 2. Someone will believe it. There's always someone who's completely media-illiterate enough to see your claim and say, holy heck, that's so psychotic it must be true! 4. They tell other people about it — but without the insane context, it's just your friend telling you a 'fact' they learned, and it's more digestible. 5. Keep flooding the zone so that the people who aren't convinced by your insanity are too exhausted to combat it. 6. Therefore, even if the conspiracy theorist's friends don't believe him, most people aren't informed enough to actually argue against the insanity, so it proliferates anyway.
this isn't just a fascist thing, this is text-book information warfare. I had a hyperfixation on AFVs and used to do light OSINT shit. Sifting out fake bot spread info from russia and real frontline info was really annoying. at some point you just write off footage from the russian side because they started FPVing already dead western armour to make themselves feel better about the t-90 being glorified scrap.
they throw thousands of claims out, the ones you see are only the ones that stick. then those are spread by useful idiots and bots till it looks like people believe them, this makes the fake appearance of social support for these ideas and makes them more believable to actual people.
Including: Herman Gorter's The Basis of Communism continued, memories of Rosa Luxemberg and Leo Yogiches continued, Claude McKay on black troops in Germany, Ireland and the government, etc.
@DrFell I don't know how much you can trust Wikipedia, but this not something I would do. MAOI Inhibitors can be dangerous with other meds and can also cause Serotonin syndrome.
Chevron, Ratio and NewMed Energy expanded an existing deal with an energy supplier to Egypt. By 2024, Israel's Leviathan will have delivered around 130 billion cubic meters of natural gas, more than doubling the original output.
نقطه عزیمت مارکس، گذرا بودن سرمایه(داری) است. سرمایهداری پدیده ای تاریخی، نه مطلق و نه ابدی، است و وظیفه تاریخی آن دقیقاً ایجاد شرایط برای ظهور شکل بالاتری از جامعه است.
People have taken to the streets in several Lebanese cities to protest the government’s controversial decision to implement a US proposal aimed at disarming anti-Israel resistance movements.
The U.S. Sec of Defense, Pete Hegseth, just signal-boosted a call to take away women’s right to vote. Repeal the 19th. In 2025. This is not a drill. 🇺🇸
David and Stuart Wise on the de-wilding of Wormwood Scrubs Common and attempts to resist it. Originally published on the Revolt Against Plenty website.
LOL...yeah. "A Con Edison spokesperson said: “Termination of service is a last resort, and we do so only after extensive outreach and exhausting all other options …" And Trump is honest and as trustworthy...
"Reproductive healthcare" outnumbers all deaths combined on the chart. That should be an eye opener for some ppl. Unfortunately, I dont think it will phase them.
The highly anticipated meeting between myself, as President of the United States of America, and President Vladimir Putin, of Russia, will take place next Friday, August 15, 2025, in the Great State of Alaska. Further details to follow. Thank you for your attention to this matter!
Found a better #Searx instance in #Canada. It's faster and also doesn't replace Reddit links with a third self-hosted 'safe' client (which I'd normally be all for if it wasn't down more than half the time).
Nora Barrows-Friedman, associate editor, delivers the news report. This is a segment from The Electronic Intifada's livestream on day 671 of the Gaza genocid...
Die Gewalt gegen Politiker hat im 1. Halbjahr 2025 im Vergleich zum Vorjahreszeitraum deutlich zugenommen. Vor allem AfD-Politiker sind das Ziel der Attacken.
を吹き込む仕事をしています
BeardedGingerWonder
in reply to RavenofDespair • • •like this
Maeve and sfera like this.
cattywampas
in reply to BeardedGingerWonder • • •muusemuuse
in reply to BeardedGingerWonder • • •There are already computers that come with Linux right out of the box. It’s needs more than that.
You need to be able to walk into a big box store, get a Linux computer right off the shelf, and take it home. That’s what’s needed here.
Once you get people to userstabdnits a different kind of computer they would take to it fine. iPad and chromebooks sell just fine and they don’t run windows or macOS. I refuse to believe Microsoft and Apple are the only ones who can sell a computer.
Eldritch
in reply to muusemuuse • • •muusemuuse
in reply to Eldritch • • •Eldritch
in reply to muusemuuse • • •☂️-
in reply to BeardedGingerWonder • • •https://mujico.org/u/SinJab0n
in reply to RavenofDespair • • •Being able to do everything a "normie" would do without the need to use a terminal.
And a way for companies to get flatpak as an alternative, i remember a friend of mine who tried to use 'buntu budgie for a while and he needed a software for cartographic stuff.
We got lucky the company of said software (and yes, it needed to be THAT specific software to avoid compat' issues, so no free alternatives were viable even if they were available) used to provide a .deb package, we got forced to change a lot of sys native binaries to make it work and ended up just breaking a lot of other stuff to do so. Flatpaks (fuck snaps) need to be the default option to be available across systems without caring about distros, so anyone can run it on "mandragora linux" if they want to
Drathro
in reply to RavenofDespair • • •hendrik
in reply to RavenofDespair • • •I'd agree with the: come preinstalled. Most people buy a device and never change the operating system. So it needs to be the preinstalled operating system on the average computer or laptop, wherever people buy those.
(And mind that Linux completely dominates the market on servers. So technically, a lot of people use Linux in a way... Just not on desktop computers.)
Tenderizer78
in reply to RavenofDespair • • •1. Obviously it needs to come pre-installed. This is a really tough hurdle to overcome and I'm not sure how it can be.
2. Security needs a lot of work if Linux is going to lose the small-target advantage.
muusemuuse
in reply to RavenofDespair • • •limer
in reply to muusemuuse • • •arcterus
in reply to RavenofDespair • • •Probably more.
EDIT: Something like Lutris should probably be integrated into the OS. Installing non-Steam games is a minor hassle at the moment IMO.
HiddenLayer555
in reply to arcterus • • •This defeats a lot of what makes Linux secure. The main reason you don't get malware is because you never run untrusted binaries from the internet and you install everything from trusted sources like your package manager. A non tech savvy person doing this will inevitably hit one of the super rare Linux malware in the wild. Clueless person downloads the wrong installer is the model malware entry case. I also don't see a benefit of just having an app store, you can even show proprietary software by default as long as they can be turned off (I suspect the main reason for one click installation is for downloading proprietary software).
arcterus
in reply to HiddenLayer555 • • •Personally, basically no one I know uses the app stores on windows or macos much. These app stores are actually functional in that they have proprietary apps and allow purchases. There is basically 0 chance Linux will become popular if you can only install things through an app store (especially those that make it hard/impossible to buy proprietary apps). Additionally, desktop Linux is not particularly secure anyway. Flatpaks are helpful here, but most require manual tuning of their sandbox to actually be secure, which the average user is 100% not gonna do. On top of this, what do you do when an app is not available in your curated app store? Do you download it directly online? Do you trust some random repository you find online that can be filled with who knows what at a later point? Or do you just say "oh well sucks to be you I guess?" If you download it directly online, then it may not even have dependency information. If it doesn't embed dependency information, then it's basically useless to your average person. It also has the problem you mentioned of someone downloading the wrong executable. Likewise, the other two options are IMO just not viable.
IMO, the only way for a package manager/app store solution to work is:
1. The platform is built around it from day 1
2. The platform has a large number of developers submitting their packages to it (as opposed to the distro maintainers having to track down changes themselves)
3. The app store has payment methods
4. The app store has proprietary apps
5. The app store has a large number of reviewers that can check the apps submitted in a timely manner
6. Probably bundling dependencies with the apps.
7. The app store has a functional review system with users actually leaving reviews.
8. Going along with the reviews, going through the app store (as opposed to using the package manager directly) may need to be a requirement to encourage reviews, at least at first.
Basically, it needs to be an iOS/Android situation, with a similarly large company backing it. I should also note that it's possible to install malware on iOS/Android, just harder, and the scope is usually less severe because of sandboxing.
EDIT: Also, it's entirely possible to do one-click installs in a "safe" way, by requiring that developers get their apps signed by whoever makes the distro (like macos gatekeeper or whatever it's called).
EDIT 2: I should also note that just being "different" is enough for people not to use something. If something basic, like the way to install apps, is different enough, people may just decide they don't like it. My relatives would likely do this, for instance.
spaghettiwestern
in reply to RavenofDespair • • •For non-enterprise users only two things:
If my neighbor's Windows or Apple machine breaks they can call Microsoft or Apple, the PC manufacturer or a bunch of different support providers. Microsoft provides free support if one of their updates causes problems.
I can't find any Linux support aimed at home users, only very expensive enterprise support options.
dysprosium
in reply to spaghettiwestern • • •stavefajl
in reply to dysprosium • • •spaghettiwestern
in reply to dysprosium • • •It's amazing how much damage those scammers cause.
Last year I ran into a retired neighbor at Staples buying a new laptop because her existing machine had been hacked. She came back after leaving it running to find someone was logged in remotely. They drained $8k from her retirement account. Turned out 6 months earlier she got a call from "Microsoft" asking to connect to her machine because they "noticed it had a problem."
anon5621
in reply to spaghettiwestern • • •spaghettiwestern
in reply to anon5621 • • •Most of the people I know are computer illiterate. They know nothing about PC's and don't care to learn because they think of PCs as appliances. They want word processing, email, photos, and web, and don't give a damn what's going on under the hood. Microsoft support is generally pretty bad, but it's far better than none at all.
That lack of any support (except me) is the only reason I haven't moved friends and family to Linux.
anon5621
in reply to spaghettiwestern • • •vrighter
in reply to RavenofDespair • • •pmk
in reply to vrighter • • •vrighter
in reply to pmk • • •my point is thatfor us techie users (i use arch btw) having choice is good. But for the average user it's a big negative actually.
The linux ecosystem needs to standardize on more things to also allow linux development to be worthwile for devs.
Choosing one distro is not enough, when it can decide to rip out and replace half of its subsystems at will. The most stable api on linux for games is win32 ffs! I have linux native builds of games that simply don't run on linux anymore.
pmk
in reply to vrighter • • •mnemonicmonkeys
in reply to vrighter • • •With gamers generally being steered towards Bazzite right now, it's already addressed in part. For everyone else, Linux Mint gets recommended a lot.
Having 2-3 starting choices based on use case is a manageable number for anyone.
Steve Dice
in reply to pmk • • •PseudoSpock
in reply to RavenofDespair • • •NauticalNoodle
in reply to RavenofDespair • • •CAD software.
FreecCAD just released it's first full version and it's a pain to use. Back in 2018 somebody said FOSS CAD software was at least ten years behind the big windows commercial software. I think now it's about fifteen behind.
anon5621
in reply to NauticalNoodle • • •CAD Software - 2D/3D CAD - Bricsys®
Bricsys NVmnemonicmonkeys
in reply to anon5621 • • •anon5621
in reply to mnemonicmonkeys • • •arsCynic
in reply to RavenofDespair • • •1. A smarter and wiser population able to discern and care enough that they're being cucked by Microsoft, overcoming the inertia to install Linux.
2. Linux invents a game/feature that is so goddamn appealing that everyone wants in on the action.
2. Preinstallation.
daisykutter
in reply to RavenofDespair • • •fakeman_pretendname
in reply to RavenofDespair • • •daniskarma
in reply to RavenofDespair • • •Multiple screens can be really finicky if they have different resolutions and refresh rates.
conorab
in reply to RavenofDespair • • •For the vast majority of users Linux is just a worse deal. Only thing that really comes to mind that Linux does that users care about is that it will support that hardware that Windows 11 will leave behind, and even those users will happily just run Windows 10 without updates and if that bites them in the ass then maybe they’ll upgrade or just ask their IT friend to use a bypass to make Windows 11 at least work on their old hardware.
Otherwise, of the things users actually care about, Linux has worse app support to the point that even pro-Linux users would rather dual-boot that lose access to their games and worse hardware support. Linux also has a problem of not being well understood by a lot of tech folk so if you bring somebody onboard you better be ready to be their only point of support.
ChromeOS is probably the best example against this since it is basically just a browser, the laptops it sells on are substantially better value than their budget counterparts and realistically a lot of the people buying them are parents for their kids so the user’s preference is substantially pushed aside in favour of cost. The SteamDeck is another good counter-example since it essentially refuses to compete with the PC gaming market by calling itself a handheld.
Linux is stuck in the crappy position of needing more users to get more software and hardware support but users need better software and hardware support for Linux to make sense compared to Windows. It’s getting better and Valve’s efforts have steadily brought the Linux gaming percentage up but it’s still the enthusiast OS.
By all means encourage it’s usage though. Linux is a far more open and privacy-respecting option and the more tech folk and basic-usage users that adopt it the better!
obsoleteacct
in reply to conorab • • •mnemonicmonkeys
in reply to conorab • • •The vast majority of users only need an office suite, an internet browser, and maybe the ability to play games. Linux does these just fine, with less bullshit than Windows to boot.
The real problem is inertia. People tend to go with what they're familiar with, and most of them are familiar with Windows. And those that might be willing to try a new OS get turned away from Linux due to outdated stigmas about it being harder to use than Windows. While that stigma may still be true for enthusiast distros like Arch, new users are generally steered away from them
Carl [he/him]
in reply to RavenofDespair • • •I think the big thing that everyone is missing here is that schools and workplaces need to push it into people's lives. For that to happen Linux (or at least one of its distros backed by a hardware distributor) needs to develop killer features for those markets and successfully sell to them in large enough numbers that the average computer user - who does not care what their OS is because they only use it for email and work - will make sure that their at-home setup is compatible with their work machine.
That moment is when market forces will take over and drive real growth in desktop Linux, rather than the tiny little bumps we've seen the past few years thanks to the Steam Deck coming out and MS pissing its users off.
This is how Apple built its marketshare against the Microsoft domination of the 90s. For a long time it was the go-to "school computer", and then those kids grew up and now a huge piece of the tech industry and culture is more or less Apple only. It's unclear if this process can be repeated, since Apple's marketshare was carved out during a time of massive growth in the industry that is unlikely to repeat, but I wouldn't say it's impossible if the right conditions reveal themselves.
I will say that it is highly unlikely that the people here would like the change if it happens - imagine Google slinging fully locked down "linux" machines en masse and everybody else needing to download their kernel fork that's loaded with spyware ("for security reasons") in order to connect to Google Teams for work. Maybe I'm being pessimistic but I just don't see mass adoption of a new OS happening without some kind of fuckery like this that renders the version of Linux that gets mass adopted unrecognizable from the version we're all using now.
The other option is state intervention, as with NeoKylin in China, although the Chinese government seems to be limiting themselves to just government computers with that distro.
obsoleteacct
in reply to Carl [he/him] • • •Carl [he/him]
in reply to obsoleteacct • • •Yeah I was thinking about that, which is why I pointed out that Apple's plan only worked because of the massive growth in personal computing. Google was able to create marketshare for Android during the massive growth in smartphones, but those conditions haven't existed for anyone for a while.
Generally how these things go is that after the growth phase comes consolidation and monopoly - we're far more likely to see Apple and MS merge into one corporation than we are to see a third option emerge as a serious competitor.
SocialMediaRefugee
in reply to Carl [he/him] • • •MonkderVierte
in reply to RavenofDespair • • •like this
sfera likes this.
null_dot
in reply to RavenofDespair • • •This question comes up every other week. I reject the premise that "more users" is a commonly held objective.
For most linux / OSS projects the objective is to be the best the project can be. Having an active community is usually part of that but "more users" is a low priority.
like this
Jetway486 likes this.
randomaside
in reply to RavenofDespair • • •This most difficult one is probably the fact that 99% of people do not install their operating system.
The device they purchase needs to have a clean and elegant out of box experience like the Mac. Regular folk who are willing to stray from windows don't consider any computer that doesn't come off the shelf with sane defaults. Everything else is arcane to them.
We are not those people. I have to remind myself that not everyone likes to build their own systems.
I do have a friend who wants to buy a framework laptop with Fedora on it because that's what they use in the Laboratory he works in but he doesn't want to assemble it himself he just wants it to come like that.
I think we're getting there finally.
obsoleteacct
in reply to RavenofDespair • • •I think the gap between what the average Linux user thinks is ease of use and what the average non Linux user thinks is ease of use is probably much larger and many devs seem to understand.
I think it would be beneficial to have a completely idiot proof installer that doesn't ask you about partitions or formatting or basically anything just point it towards a drive and it will set up a default installation.
More GUI based means of doing basic stuff. A casual who wants to access some photos from his laptop does not want to figure out how to manually configure samba shares by editing config files in their terminal based text editor.
I think codecs are a much bigger pain in the ass than is ideal. As I understand that there are legal reasons for this but the first time some casual goes to play a video and gets an error message their first thought may not be "let me search Google and figure out what this error message means" their first thought maybe "Linux sucks and can't play videos".
The permission structure that makes Linux so secure makes it a little annoying for casuals. For example, you actively and intentionally go to the default software store, navigate to the updates tab, update a package you've already installed and clearly want, and do so from the official OS repository... This requires that you enter your password to protect you from what exactly? It's not a big deal it takes one second to type my password, but how would you explain this to a casual in a way that makes sense? Your OS is protecting you from potentially rogue acts of official patches to your default text editor.
I think the folder structures are pretty big challenge for converts. On Windows you can find most of the files associated with any given program in your program files folder. On Mac there's an applications folder. On Linux... it's somewhere, don't worry about it. That's not really a fixable one it just is what it is.
mnemonicmonkeys
in reply to obsoleteacct • • •I have never had this happen before across 3 distros, and I really doubt any casual user will have this experience either
SocialMediaRefugee
in reply to obsoleteacct • • •mathias_freire
in reply to RavenofDespair • • •I guess it would be reducing the need of terminal usage as much as possible. That's still the only thing a common user struggles with, in my opinion. The rest is just difference or has nothing to do with Linux.
With Linux gaming is rising currently, most common problem is kernel anti-cheat games and it's not Linux problem, for example. What are devs supposed to do? To develop literal Windows kernel compatibility layer or something? But Linux may do stuff on their end to make cheating difficult to keep game studio's happy but that would also mean to stray away from its philosophy. As a general platform, it would be hard to do this anyway. This would be possible per distro basis. Maybe Linux dev circles are already discussing this, maybe not, I don't know honestly.
some_guy
in reply to RavenofDespair • • •People who convince themselves they "just aren't good with computers."
In the early 2000s, it was widely thought that everyone who grew up with them would be reasonably competent with them. We now have 20-30 year olds who are still stumped with basic computing concepts like how to reset a forgotten password. I literally ran into this a couple of months ago: Really? You haven't had to do this a dozen times in your life by now? How did you finish college (this person was highly educated)?
mnemonicmonkeys
in reply to some_guy • • •I had a similar problem with a couple of friends a few weeks back. They're a couple with a lot of debt, so they usually do everything they can to save money. Then the main water line started leaking.
I asked a few questions, and it turned out they could solder the pipes themselves and save hundreds on hiring a plumber. But the wife kept insisting that they were both too dumb to figure it out and by me saying it's easy to learn she just took it as me calling them stupid (which was a weird bit of gaslighting).
They didn't even look up a video on how to do it. I looked some up as a sanity check, and yeah it's fairly straightforward. .
How To Solder Copper Pipes | The Home Depot with @thisoldhouse
YouTubeHouseWolf
in reply to mnemonicmonkeys • • •Glad I'm not the only one who notices this. It's not everyone I meet, but I know quite a few people who double down on their inability to do simple tasks or learn a basic skill... I mostly wonder where it started for these people.
Similar situation, had a buddy recently throw out a pair of $300 headphones because the cable broke.
Jetway486
in reply to RavenofDespair • • •like this
Jetway486 likes this.
Domi
in reply to Jetway486 • • •like this
sfera likes this.
RavenofDespair
in reply to Jetway486 • • •sfera likes this.
hobbsc
in reply to Jetway486 • • •Jetway486 likes this.
haloduder
in reply to RavenofDespair • • •RavenofDespair
in reply to haloduder • • •not quite01(they/them)
in reply to haloduder • • •haloduder
in reply to not quite01(they/them) • • •Communist
in reply to RavenofDespair • • •Be preinstalled on laptops/desktops.
everything else is ready unless you use niche software. Most people just use a browser and word or a pdf editor.
note the distro MUST be an immutable up to date kde flatpak using one for normal people, however
IHave69XiBucks
in reply to Communist • • •Communist
in reply to IHave69XiBucks • • •IHave69XiBucks
in reply to Communist • • •Once again im gonna have to disagree. You are right only if someone is used to windows. But many people ONLY use a phone or tablet these days. Gnome is much more familiar when coming from Android or iOS on a mobile platform. Since its more gesture based just like those are.
Especially among younger people i think the main OS will not be windows but Android. Just look at how Samsung is testing out Samsung Dex on their devices and how Chrome OS is moving to android. Windows is more of the productivity, and desktop OS now imo. For daily use like web browsing, media consumption, etc, Android will be more and more common.
If trends continue as they are i expect Linux to be dominant in the server space still, and to gain ground in the gaming space. Mainly as Valve comes out with more plug and play Linux based consoles, and other companies copy them.
Windows will likely remain dominant in the professional and productivity space. Since they cater to companies and allow lots of remote control options, and the ability to monitor employees.
Android will probably be dominant in the casual media consumption, and web browsing space.
Apple kind of does their own thing and so i dont consider them for this. They are in a bit of everything, but mainly focused in the US specifically. Other regions have a lot more Android presence. But just assume Apple has a piece of each pie too.
Personally i do not think Linux can or should compete with Windows in the corporate space. What companies want is control. That control comes at the cost of features, privacy, and autonomy for users. Microsoft is happy to give those up to make more money. The Linux community isnt, and thats a good thing.
So the areas we can probably peel away some market share are in KDE powered gaming desktops, gaming consoles on something like Steam OS or Bazzite, and in touch friendly portable media machines. 2-in-1 Gnome powered laptops. Thats the way i see it anyway.
WFH
in reply to RavenofDespair • • •A multi-billion dollars marketing budget, anti-competitive practices and confidential agreements, blacklisting hardware vendors if they dare proposing an alternative, and of course a legal department the size of a small city to sue all competition out of existence.
Oh wait that's Microsoft/Google/Apple/Meta/Amazon.
rmuk
in reply to RavenofDespair • • •twice_hatch
in reply to RavenofDespair • • •brax
in reply to RavenofDespair • • •I think it's more users need to realize that an OS that is easier to use in every way is not a more difficult OS to use.
But also, I'm okay gatekeeping Linux, as bringing the masses over just means enshitification and turning it into Windows again. Fuck that.
testman
in reply to brax • • •can you explain the reasoning in your second paragraph?
Also I'm not sure that your definition of Enshittification is correct.
systematic decline in quality of online platforms over time driven by greed
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)brax
in reply to testman • • •You need to dumb shit down for the majoirty. Jist look at the downward spiral of popular software, and how little the masses really care about ownership or ability to tinker and control what they use.
If you want the masses to use Linux, then you'll need a distro that is as useless as Windows. No technical errors, no forward-facing power user features.
Plus, you'll bring the big corps into Linux with a their shit ideas like rootkits, SaaS, etc. Because if the masses are in Linux, they'll be following the money.
not quite01(they/them)
in reply to RavenofDespair • • •I think with any alternative to big tech the problem is most people are really unwilling to change their habits and make short term compromises.
A lot of people know on a surface level that big tech is stealing their data etc.
But actually changing their habits goes to far.
Another issue is that its more or less a systemic issue.
To many people aren't even awear of what FOSS even is.
The state of Foss and is a bit complicated where you do have organizations and activists advocating for it but also gigantic corporations that use Foss technology and exploit the free labor that goes into it.
There definitely needs to be more activism for FOSS technology and alternatives to big tech.
And those alternatives should be open to everyone like Linux is.
Of course there are always multiple reasons why something isn't used but I do think it is important to look at a bigger perspective than individual consumer/ in this case users
Electricd
in reply to RavenofDespair • • •mub
in reply to RavenofDespair • • •Adding my voice to the hardware compatibility issue. While most hardware just works, Linux usually lacks the ability to configure the device. Audio interfaces are a good example of this. They work but you can't set the sample rate or enable any custom features on ANY of them.
I believe government regulators should step in and require hardware manufacturers to provide Linux support equal to Windows or Mac. This could be relaxed for low volume or highly specialised devices, but mainstream consumer stuff should be more universal.
nocteb
in reply to mub • • •Not in my experience. I have a RME card that can be configured via alsamixer (which should work for most cards) and a Focusrite Saphire USB interface that someone wrote a little UI for in which you can even freely route audio to/from different channels and mix busses.
Captain Aggravated
in reply to mub • • •It CAN be configured, but you have to go hunting for the tools to do so.
I've got an old 5.1 surround sound speaker setup attached to my main rig, and in both Cinnamon and KDE (the only two I've tried), you can't use the normal DE's audio control panel to put the thing in 5.1 mode without first installing an old, probably unmaintained tool called ALSAJackRetask. Once you've retasked the jacks, several options for surround appear in the DE's audio control panel. It knows but it can't do.
lIlIllIlIIIllIlIlII
in reply to RavenofDespair • • •Bronstein_Tardigrade
in reply to RavenofDespair • • •Captain Aggravated
in reply to RavenofDespair • • •I'm reminded of a video I saw of a woman talking about her dating prospects using M&Ms. She poured a bunch on the table as a metaphor for her dating pool, and slid away M&Ms as she ruled the people they represent out. "8 million people in the city. But half are women slides half of the M&Ms away of the remaining 4 million men, 20% are under 25, slides more M&Ms away" until she got to a point where she had one candy left, and then she shattered it with a meat tenderizer and continued sliding pieces of it away.
You can do that for potential adoptees of Linux, because there are a bunch of filters in series you have to pass through before successfully adopting Linux.
8 billion people on the planet.
Subtract the Sentinelese and Amish and North Koreans and everyone else who just outright doesn't have access to computers. Nothing we can really do about them and in some cases it would be unethical to try.
Now subtract out the people who only use a mobile device like a cell phone or tablet, which are locked to their OSes. Android or iOS is as much a part of the hardware as a microwave oven's firmware is to them. Linux on mobile devices (excluding Android) is in a severely rough state, there's basically no hardware and software combo that is ready for daily driving.
Now subtract out the people who do use a PC or other device, that won't ever install an operating system on a computer themselves. You'll get some of these folks by selling computers with Linux installed in stores and such, though I think you'll have to address a few other points later. I think SteamOS is demonstrating this.
Now subtract the people who might install Linux themselves, say PC builders who would have to install an OS anyway, but bounce off the process of choosing a distro and then installing. The big distributors like Canonical and Fedora tend toward marketing wankshit instead of human language. You can't tell their goddamn websites "I just want the normal end-user desktop version with KDE please." Does "Core" mean our main, central product, or the IoT embedded system version? You kind of have to know Fedora calls their Gnome edition "Workstation" and if you want "normal Fedora but with KDE" that's a "Spin." Then you get the Trendy Fork Of The Month, things like Bazzite and Nobara that pretty much are Fedora or Ubuntu with a theme applied, maybe some actual features in the OS, but often just a redone onboarding process, like I think it's Bazzite that offers a configurator on their website that lets you pick your desktop and such. Defuckulating the onboarding process of major distros might allow us to do away with the Trendy Fork Of The Month.
Now subtract the folks who get a Linux machine up and running and then bounce off of the unfamiliar UI. I'm pretty sure this is Gnome's fault more often than not, Gnome is deliberately hostile to both distro maintainers and end users to the point there are now four DEs that are "We can't do this anymore" forks of Gnome: MATE, Cinnamon, Unity and Cosmic. You'd probably see more people stick with Linux if it was less easy to stumble dick first into Gnome.
Now subtract the people who got this far and then said "My CAD/art/music/office/finance/whatever software doesn't run on this." and had to switch back. In a lot of cases, software like that exists in the FOSS ecosystem but it's significantly inferior, like FreeCAD or GIMP. These are often kept in a deliberately shitty state because some opinionated programmer likes how the code they wrote in 2004 looks in their IDE, so open software continues to be unadoptable and people continue to pay subscriptions to the Captain Planet villains in charge of Microsoft, Apple, Google and Adobe.
☂️-
in reply to Captain Aggravated • • •Captain Aggravated
in reply to ☂️- • • •☂️-
in reply to Captain Aggravated • • •Captain Aggravated
in reply to ☂️- • • •Explain the permanent state of GIMP's UI without deliberate sabotage.
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in reply to Captain Aggravated • • •SlartyBartFast
in reply to RavenofDespair • • •qt0x40490FDB
in reply to SlartyBartFast • • •