Linux phones are more important now than ever


E: apparently it needs to be said that I am not suggesting you switch to Linux on your phone today; just that development needs to accelerate. Please don't be one of the 34 people that replied to tell me Linux is not ready.


Android has always been a fairly open platform, especially if you were deliberate about getting it that way, but we've seen in recent months an extremely rapid devolution of the Android ecosystem:

  1. The closing of development of an increasing number of components in AOSP.
  2. Samsung, Xiaomi and OnePlus have removed the option of bootloader unlocking on all of their devices. I suspect Google is not far behind.
  3. Google implementing Play Integrity API and encouraging developers to implement it, which prevents apps from the Google Play Store from being downloaded without a system-wide OS-level account login.

Notably the EU's own identity verification wallet requires this, in stark contrast to their own laws and policies, despite the protest of hundreds on Github.
4. And finally, the mandatory implementation of developer verification across Android systems. Yes, if you're running a 3rd-party OS like GOS you won't be directly affected by this, but it will impact 99.9% of devices, and I foresee many open source developers just opting out of developing apps for Android entirely as a result. We've already seen SyncThing simply discontinue development for this reason, citing issues with Google Play Store. They've also repeatedly denied updates for NextCloud with no explanation, only restoring it after mass outcry. And we've already seen Google targeting any software intended to circumvent ads, labeling them in the system as "dangerous" and "untrusted". This will most certainly carry into their new "verification" system.

Google once competed with Apple for customers. But in a world where Google walks away from the biggest antitrust trial since 1998 with yet another slap on the wrist, competition is dead, and Google is taking notes from Apple about what they can legally get away with.

Android as we know it is dead. And/or will be dead very soon. We need an open replacement.

E2: thank you to everyone stopping by from Hacker News, Reddit, etc. to check out the threadiverse. I hope you'll stick around for a while. Check out phtn.app/ and the Voyager and Blorp apps for a nicer UI. Fuck Spez!

This entry was edited (6 days ago)
in reply to quick_snail

How delusional are you? Samsung holds over 20% of the worldwide mobile phone market, only beat by Apple by a few percent.

And that is ignoring the obvious trend from Google to lock down the Android ecosystem to only them and their partners. If they have their way, they will make 3rd party ROMs nearly impossible, block all 3rd party apps, and close the door on fdroid. Maybe what has been done so far doesn't affect you, but if no one gets in their way, it absolutely will and soon.

Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source

glitching

see, this is the thing I'm talking about. your comment indicates that it's possibly a viable alternative to OS developed by the wealthiest corps in the world, for 15+ years and people are like "ok, there's options"...

it is nowhere near that. it's linux on a mobile device, and that's such a humongously, vastly different thing than an alternative and that should be the first and foremost thing said. same with the "android is linux" bozos in every thread (it really, really isn't) who are not helping the issue, at all.

and then we can dwell on whether it's usable or not in its present state.

in reply to Ulrich

I just hope that this time we go Free Software and not committing the mistake of going Open Source for a 3rd time (BSD/UNIX AT&T; Android/Google). Unless we want to fall with the same stone yet once more.

Android going Open Source allowed Google to close Android once it got mature. It's a Trojan Horse, yet people still go Open Source and then complain when some company closes their source.

in reply to bufalo1973

I get where this argument is coming from, but I don't think there are meaningful differences in the success of gpl or other copyleft licenses, vs permissive ones (except maybe cases where someone was willing and able to enforce the gpl in court). Companies are no less capable of doing EEE with copyleft. There are also plenty of permissively licensed software projects that have gained a lot of popularity, just like some gpl ones have.

The difference in traction between Linux and BSD probably has more to do with the same kinds of forces that allowed Android to succeed and then crowd Windows phones out of the market.

in reply to smiletolerantly

My bad for no specifying I didn't use a very specific naming indeed. Normally Open Source it's used for source code that's not copylefted or copylefted software that does not defend user freedom (Although Open Source OSS does not say that, indeed GPL by the OSS definition is open source software). On the other hand Free software is commonly used for GPL like software (although most of the so called open source software could also be named free software). Also free software does not refer to "gratis" software. For a better explanation you can check this and this.

Anyways what I wanted to point out is that software that protects user freedoms and is copylefted (like GPL) protect users because the source code is protected from being closed if it is distributed.

On the other hand some open source software (open as open access), like ASOP, give open access without any protection for the user freedoms. For example the BSD-3-Clause.

I prefer to use the term Free Software instead of Open Software, because it points out that the whole meaning behind the licence is to maintain source code freedoms. On the other hand Open software seems to defend the fact that the source code is open but not its freedoms.

Both OSS Open source and FSF Free software definition refer to mostly the same set of licences, which in order to distinguish you would need to check the particular details like copyleft, etc.

Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source

youmaynotknow

Reminds me of my drugs days. "I can control it, I use them because I want to, not because I need them. I can quit any time". 20 years later, no house, no family, no money, and half my recommended weight. And it's the same for every addiction. The only way to get rid of a problem is by first accepting there is a problem. Changing pushers never made it better, just saying.
Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source

burlemarx

It's not a simple matter of choice. Most people aren't invested into open source, they just want to get by and do their mundane things. Most people aren't even aware of all the privacy stuff or abusive practices of big business, it's usually some more outspoken tech savvy person that decides to expose what the big corps are doing. So using open source is not a choice, like you would be just choosing your preferred cereal brand, but both a technical and political act. And most people are just into the system, they aren't aware of all malicious things around them.

Not only that, but also when companies feel threatened, they start imposing new technical and legal restrictions to make using OSS harder. Since they have more control over the whole production supply chain of devices, they have more cost effective options and even partnership with hardware vendors to make using OSS very hard or impossible.

Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source

Piece_Maker

if you're squeamish about flashing custom recoveries and ROMs, the e.g. pmOS install process is way, way, way more involved and failure prone. if you go with ubuntu touch or mobian, even more so.


What?? PmOS and Ubuntu Touch both have very easy, foolproof installers. No idea about Mobian to be fair.

I've been using only Linux-based mobile OS's since my first smartphone, and while you're right for a lot of the new breed made for the Pinephone and Librem, Sailfish OS and Ubuntu Touch are both perfectly useable for lots of people. Both have a decent app ecosystem and both support running Android apps to fill in the gaps (I've used both, the proprietary Jolla one is about as good as it gets and is practically seamless for like 99% of Android apps).

Of course there's going to be people who will respond to me to say they can't possibly switch because of that one app that they and 5 other people in the world use, as though they're in any way relevant to what I've said. Just the same as when I post about people switching to Linux on the desktop and there's always that one Fusion 360 user who thinks everyone in the world also uses Fusion and so Linux can't possibly ever work for anyone.

Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source

FosterMolasses

Thank you. I get what OP is saying, but in general I'm so over the constant blind Linux fanboy hype train, like it's the solution to everything. One of the reasons I can't really stand to be on this instance unless I see something important enough to hit the front page. I'll take a remotely functional windows dist with customized features over pretty much any linux OS anyday in order to not struggle to complete the most basic, essential tasks.

Life's too short to spend glued to Stackexchange instead of actually getting shit done.

in reply to Ulrich

i still think that the Linux Mobile ecosystem is bad(even worse then Desktop Linux), i want it to happen and become as good as Desktop Linux.
also i am pretty sure Google cannot fully get rid of AOSP, especially Android is put on any phone that isn't Google.
tho even before the Goolog fuckery these things where there.
Samsung required a a leaked program to Unlock its bootloader(Odin which is proprietary), and would trip Knox.
Xiaomi required a wait time to unlock its bootloader, and the unlocking bootloader thingy is proprietary.
Banking apps wouldnt work with root and stuff, even before the Play Integrity API forcing thingy.
This entry was edited (2 weeks ago)
in reply to Piece_Maker

To be fair, Fusion 360 is pretty good... I hate to love it, to miss it. I can't wrap my head around the work flow in FreeCAD.

But more often I am shocked by people saying they have to stay on windows because of Office... Like, the fuck? MS doesn't even want you to have that installed on your computer anymore and is pushing all web based, but that is going to keep you on Windows?? Nothing there is particularly hungry, just put it in a VM if you absolutely can't get by with one of the several great alternatives.

in reply to Ulrich

indeed, android has been a shit show for the last couple of months and its not looking good.

i was thinking that this will make rooting and by extension custom ROMs prevalent again which hopefully will take us back to the golden age of android modding, but be careful of what you
wish for.

I DON'T WANNA USE STOCK ANDROID. DON'T WANNA DON'T WANNA DON'T WANNA DON'T WANNA DON'T WANNA DON'T WANNA

This entry was edited (2 weeks ago)
in reply to Piece_Maker

This seems less of a problem in the US, but a lot of stuff here is done with some apps that won't run on these distributions.

Banks have created identity provides which now the government also uses, and they're locked down to Android and iOS. Without these, making payments or do other stuff you need your identity for gets hard. And there are used by hundreds of thousands of people daily.

If they can run, I'd switch over instantly, but now I'm pretty much stuck.

Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source

freebee

How cool would it be to out of nowhere see Valve come out with a SteamPhone based on Arch which does everything you ever hoped for and runs on high quality hardware including all the features that others took away (colour alert pixel, 3,5mm jack, replaceable battery), complete with dual boot or a containerised Android-mode for running apps that would never work like banking or eID. Would buy instantly.
in reply to Ulrich

While I support the continued progress of real Linux phones, have a Pinephone, and even wasted all of yesterday trying to make a working build of Armbian for retro handheld I have; I think it's more practical to focus on open Android distributions, getting more phones out that can support multi os's and buying those, and growing a robust app market system that can compete with Google Play.

F-Droid is almost there, but being open-source doesn't mean something has to be free of charge. F-Droid should be extended, or possibly an additional app manager be established, that still promotes software freedom and privacy, but allows for devs to charge for their apps as well.

in reply to Ulrich

Nothing that has or will happen can stop the parts of Android that are already open from remaining open. Yes there will be fewer choices. Yes this means alternative ROM makers will have no choice but to shoulder more of the development burden themselves. And yes this means there's going to be significantly fewer open Android devices and new manufacturers will have to make the intentional effort to make and sell new devices that are free by design - a few of which already exist.

But no matter how many obstacles open Android has, the thing you're ignoring is that it's still in a far better place than mobile Linux. For a start, any device that respects rights enough to be Linux compatible will automatically be compatible with free and degoogled versions of Android as well.

What these growing problems are is a galvanizing call. Samsung, Xiaomi, and OnePlus, and Google were never our friends. Whatever their imperfections, at least Pine64, Purism, BQ, Planet Computers, Murena, Fairphone, F(x)tec, Volla, and SHIFT have sold hardware that was rights respecting by design. We need more companies or other organizations to do that, and we need to choose to buy and promote more devices like that.

And as that happens more, open Android and Linux are going to benefit equally, but there's no getting around the fact that for now and the forseeable future, the open Android variants are still far more mature, far more feature-complete, way closer to the kind of user experience the vast majority of people expect, and far more established.

And again, probably the biggest missing thing we need there is an app marketplace that competes more directly with Google Play, that gives more devs good incentives to want to switch away from Play.

in reply to AnimalsDream

Nothing that has or will happen can stop the parts of Android that are already open from remaining open.


Not really relevant if future development stalls.

the thing you're ignoring is that it's still in a far better place than mobile Linux


The thing you're ignoring is that Linux is continually progressing and improving while Android is regressing.

Whatever their imperfections, at least Pine64, Purism, BQ, Planet Computers, Murena, Fairphone, F(x)tec, Volla, and SHIFT have sold hardware that was rights respecting by design.


The hardware is irrelevant when the software is fundamentally broken.

in reply to Ulrich

No, in a lot of ways the open Android roms keep getting better, despite every possible obstacle being thrown in their way. It's easy to make a mature platform sound like it has "stalled", when you're comparing it to alternatives that are still so unusably bad that they have nowhere to go but up.

Do what you want, but get real. If you care more about making your ideals happen, maybe stop debating internet randos so feverishly, and start making pull requests.

in reply to AnimalsDream

It's easy to make a mature platform sound like it has "stalled"


It's not "stalled", it's regressing. I explained all of this in detail in the OP.

maybe stop debating internet randos so feverishly


My brother in Christ, you came in here and debated me in my thread. I am not debating with myself here...

and start making pull requests


Did it ever occur to you that everyone is not a coder?

Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source

AnimalsDream

You might have better luck looking at the distros themselves. They're not exactly great on any device yet, but there are cases where mobile Linux distros work at least equally or a little better on select Android phones than they do on dedicated Linux phones.
Unknown parent

piefed - Link to source

hendrik

I'm not sure. A phone is kind of a tool, same for a computer. Ideally we weigh our options (aka compare them) and pick which suits us best. And this grass roots effort isn't doing a half-assed job. I have almost everything available. I can do regular tasks, edit videos, do computer aided design, do heavy database stuff, run the bookkeeping for an entire mid-sized company, a server farm or almost anything I like with Free Software and Linux. I don't think a phone is fundamentally different and I kind of have the same high expectations for that niche. We're already doing great with lots of other things, both more niche and more ordinary stuff. And oftentimes it does not include money from tech giants.
This entry was edited (2 weeks ago)
in reply to Ulrich

Ill address your issues with Android and then ill give my issues with mobile Linux:

::: spoiler 1

  1. The closing of development of an increasing number of components in AOSP.


Yeah this is bad but not even devastating for custom roms like GOS or LineageOS
:::
::: spoiler 2

  1. Samsung, Xiaomi and OnePlus have removed the option of bootloader unlocking on all of their devices. I suspect Google is not far behind.


I highly doubt Google would lock the bootloader, they still make the most friendly devices for custom roms (yes even after all they have done). Also Samsung hasnt acturally allowed custom roms for a while now while Xiaomi doesn't either.
:::
::: spoiler 3

  1. Google implementing Play Integrity API and encouraging developers to implement it. Notably the EU's own identity verification wallet requires this, in stark contrast to their own laws and policies, despite the protest of hundreds on Github.


Even if a developer used the Play Integrity API it doesn't mean custom roms or other operating systems like GOS arent supported. I use GOS and have had no issues with play integrity, there are no incentives to require a certified Android device.
:::
::: spoiler 4

  1. And finally, the mandatory implementation of developer verification across Android systems. Yes, if you're running a 3rd-party OS like GOS you won't be directly affected by this, but it will impact 99.9% of devices, and I foresee many open source developers just opting out of developing apps for Android entirely as a result.


Sideloading isnt going anywhere and tbh I doubt this will be strongly enforced, Google will always have the threat of root resurfacing. You dont even need root to get rid of Google Play services and install MicroG.
:::
::: spoiler Conclusion

Android as we know it is dead. And/or will be dead very soon. We need an open replacement.


That seems highly unlikely, even with everything Google has done the fact is AOSP is the only mature open source mobile project.
:::
Now ill get to my issues with mobile Linux:
::: spoiler Hardware
As of now there is no good hardware and no plans by any company to make good hardware in the future.
:::
::: spoiler UI
Mobile Linux interfaces are at least a decade behind Android, clunky and bearly usable. Btw yes I have tried them recently, they suck. For the most part mobile Linux interfaces are made by developers who would never acturally daily drive them.
:::
::: spoiler Software support
Not a lot of Linux software supports arm and those that do either don't work with touchscreens or have them as an afterthought.
:::
::: spoiler UX
The software that does work generals isnt designed with small screens in mind and are very often scaled down desktop apps
:::
::: spoiler Basic functionality
Basic functionality is absolutely not there on Linux phones, things like calling and texing either require commands or outright dont work at all. For example according to the Postmarketos Wiki in order to change volume on a Pixel 3a during a call you need to manually change it with commands. Genuenly what the fuck, if im on an important call the other person isnt going to wait several hours for me to fiddle with the terminal. If I need to send a text now im not waiting several hours until it works.
:::
::: spoiler Security
Mobile Linux has all the security issues as Linux with no mitigations, except phones contain a lot more personal information and are more likley to be a target for data extraction.
:::

in reply to kittenzrulz123

Yeah this is bad but not even devastating for custom roms like GOS or LineageOS


Not yet. It's a concerning trend. It's certainly put a strain on their already-limited resources.

I highly doubt Google would lock the bootloader


...why not?

Also Samsung hasnt acturally allowed custom roms for a while now while Xiaomi doesn't either.


They had unlocked bootloaders. Now they don't. That's all I can say about that.

Even if a developer used the Play Integrity API it doesn't mean custom roms or other operating systems like GOS arent supported.


That's...exactly what that means. That's the entire point.

have had no issues with play integrity


Oh well I suppose if you have no issues, no one else is either? No. You're just not using the apps in question. But once again, it is a concerning growing trend. More and more apps are implementing it.

I doubt this will be strongly enforced


Why would Google lie about this?

As of now


As you might have read in the first sentence of the OP, I was not suggesting installing it now.

in reply to kittenzrulz123

Graphene team already did a blog post about the lock down of AOSP and how it will significantly hinder their ability to support future hardware, since drivers was a huge part of what was moved closed source by google. Those open source drivers was the big driving force for why Graphene basically only supported Pixel phones. They made it significantly harder for people using AOSP derivatives currently to upgrade to a new phone when it is time.
in reply to kittenzrulz123

True, GOS team has not quit, but we don't know yet what the consequences will be. They have said hardware support going forward will take more time than it used to. We do not know how much time that will take. We don't know what functionality might be lost in the process.

Just because GOS didn't throw in the towel doesn't mean that they won, or that the fight is even over. No one knows what roadblocks Google's next steps will cause either.

Google has all but officially declared that they look at custom roms and anything other than Google's official android to be akin to piracy and hacking (something similar to a mod-chip from the old playstation days). They are actively trying to start an arms race between their prevention tactics and the FOSS community's way around those tactics (or win it before it starts), just like with adblockers.

in reply to Ulrich

I got a Sailfish OS last year seeing the writing on the wall already with all the bootloader locking. It’s been bumpy to put it lightly, but at least it has Android apps to help get over the gaping holes of basic missing apps like a halfway decent XMPP client. …But at least native WhisperFish lets you get around the lack of Signal on most non-duopoly platforms.
This entry was edited (2 weeks ago)
in reply to youmaynotknow

And it all just reinforces that people online are losers. That's all I am being reminded of; even on a decentralized platform like this. No wonder I took excessive steps to filter all big tech and mainstream social media on my home network by using things like Pihole, and also my own hosted SearXNG instance to filter search results. Because it's all designed to be just like a hamster wheel. That's all it ever can be.
in reply to Ulrich

What I really hope for is a way to install linux on any mobile device, be it Samsung, Google, One Plus or whatever, like we do with Linux… with linux it doesn’t matter which brand is your laptop… it always works, and if we can replicate that it means true freedom and also it means linux mobile phones are gonna be more fun and broader than desktop computers… cuz everyone uses smart phones.
in reply to Ulrich

I'm probably going to spam this around a bit, since most people don't seem to know about it, but a reminder that FuriLabs has a (GNU+)Linux phone with decent spec.s and the ability to run Android app.s (from what I've heard) pretty decently: furilabs.com/

Biggest drawback is it's based on Halium. Usual growing pains of a new product/company apply but apparently the company is pretty responsive and their dev.s have worked with customers to get things like calling working with the carrier and bands of their country where it hasn't worked before so improvements move pretty quickly.

Collection of different experiences I've variously seen online over the last year or so:
* clehaxze.tw/gemlog/2025/07-20-…
* news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4…
* reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1f…
* reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1j…
* theregister.com/2025/02/03/fur…

I don't own one, myself, so I can't give any personal experience but I've seen it around for a few years now but most people don't seem to even know about it. Maybe there's a reason for that? But none I've ever seen anyone say.

This entry was edited (2 weeks ago)
Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source

Kiloee

My bank does not have physical representation anywhere, since it is a digital bank.
When I joined them they had a sheet of TAN numbers for us to use, but that is long since gone.
And seeing how few and far between other banks are with theirs nowadays it would become extremely impractical to do physical banking only.
in reply to Ulrich

I've been a mobile dev for many years, I fell in love with the Nokia 810 with maemo which kinda got me started, but I never had one myself. I moved to OpenMoko and saved to buy a Neo. But then Android became big with Google's support and all companies rushing to have an alternative to iOS with the iPhone. Back then when Android meant openness. As much as I loved the openmoko project it had plenty of issues as a daily driver, so eventually I cracked and moved to Android with a Galaxy S2, ah, the innocence back then when one could think Google was actually different... Actually doing good and creating a great Linux phone.

I absolutely agree on all your points. It is time to kill Android as a free/open source idea if it is not dead yet. And you know what, Linux is absolutely ready to substitute anything as a mobile platform. It needs more polishing in terms of UI but Maemo nearly 20 years ago already offered a great UX IMO. Thank you Microsoft and all Nokia management for destroying it.

Now, I say Linux as a mobile platform is ready... But we all know it doesn't lack problems. What are those? The problems come from anticompetitive practices, locked hardware for chips, drivers and so on, specially all related to phone networking. The other main problem is apps which is only a small issue with all the ways there are available to make android apps run on Linux, that is... Until google comes to fuck things up with the points #3 and #4 you make. Those are the biggest threats right now, and it's no wonder Google is doing that. They are preventing the possibility of competition arising. Like I said, I have been a dev for many years, it absolutely sucks the path all tech is taking. But there are solutions, just need to have proper anticompetitive practices and protections... At least in Europe we kinda do, but more needs to be done.

The main point is, Linux as an alternative is kinda ready, if only there was a real posible competition to be had outside of being incredibly rich.

in reply to Ulrich

The discussions here are quite passionate so a bit of a reality check :

"PineStore has also discontinued the PinePhone Pro which was talked about in the last recent blog post. TLDR, sales were low".

So... people here say they do want one, but clearly not like that one.

Also recently the crowd funding of indiegogo.com/projects/liberux… barely reached 10% of €1,434,375 Fixed Goal with just 135 backers.

So... also clearly not that one either.

So what accelerated development do people not just want to claim they do want, but actually pay for?

This entry was edited (2 weeks ago)
in reply to dreaper

Lol, I find it so funny that people actually believe they are doing damage by down voting. I still think the way I do, and it's why I don't use anything mainstream at all.

Fedora for work, Fedora on my laptop, a ProxMox server with 20TB of space to hold everything I want.

Add to that the awesome blessing of living where most people go only on expensive vacations, own my business with my wife, and get to enjoy beach, pool, large backyard with 3 dogs and own my time.

How can I do all this? Easy, I get to control my time, my money, my data and my life.

Like you say, losers scrolling mindlessly in social networks seeing what the corps want them to see, getting controlled, and then crying like little bitches because "we need someone to do something about all this we're addicted to" instead of growing some balls and taking control of their lives.

My kids spend all day at school, and all afternoon and weekends outside. Guess who's kids will be tough enough when they grow up to lead the sheep.

I remember Zuckerberg himself saying that he didn't allow his kids to use Facebook. Why people never took that as the most clear warning they would ever get is beyond me.

in reply to youmaynotknow

It's why I removed the voting function by using Ublock. Because it is so pointless. Not like this site has a karma rating system like 'Dead Readdit'; thank goodness for that. But yeah, people doing that just shows how damn conditioned they are. Really, as Linus Torvalds says, social media is a cancer on the Internet.

And nice! I use KDE Neon for my desktop. And my media server only uses a 4 TB drive (with a 128 GB SSD for the OS). To be frank, there isn't much I really want to download and keep these days. Even got myself a 130 GB stash of corn because all there is on the mainstream is shitty SpicyFans garbage. So, I am glad I chose to archive TV shows, movies, anime and so on that I liked years ago. It's all hosted on a old Lenovo Think Centre from the Vista days, running Manjaro of all things. It was a neat project that ended up being very useful in the end.

But yeah. To me, much of the Internet is just dead to me now. Especially since I mainly only use RSS feeds now.

Add to that the awesome blessing of living where most people go only on expensive vacations, own my business with my wife, and get to enjoy beach, pool, large backyard with 3 dogs and own my time.


Nice. I am also doing something somewhat similar; beach volleyball at the park. But also archery.

Like you say, losers scrolling mindlessly in social networks seeing what the corps want them to see, getting controlled, and then crying like little removed because “we need someone to do something about all this we’re addicted to” instead of growing some balls and taking control of their lives.

My kids spend all day at school, and all afternoon and weekends outside. Guess who’s kids will be tough enough when they grow up to lead the sheep.

I remember Zuckerberg himself saying that he didn’t allow his kids to use Facebook. Why people never took that as the most clear warning they would ever get is beyond me.


Too on the mark. Complaining because they don't realize how far in the rabbit hole they are in. It's an endless cycle. Drama is what fuels engagement. Engagement nets profit. That's what all the mainstream platforms are about. And then you have people like the original poster carrying that to decentralized platforms like this.

This entry was edited (2 weeks ago)
in reply to Piece_Maker

I agree with your sentiment entirely. Hell, I do really like F360, but it isn't enough for me to go back to using windows.

In most situations, especially ones typical users are going to run into, I've found the alternatives to be much easier for me to learn and use. I fucking love Krita for the image editing I need an image editor for. From my experience, 95%+ people would have a better time if they weren't blindly sticking to proprietary software they think they "need".

in reply to Ulrich

Hi,
I've just registered here to bring an addition to the conversation that hasn't been mentioned yet: Droidian.

It's a Debian-based distro that can run on a number of Android phones, and it uses Halium technology to utilize the Android device drivers, but on top of those, it provides a complete Debian+Phosh experience!

On well-supported devices the performance is just like native Android, with camera support and almost everything seems to work. Waydroid also provides a full Android system if needed, again, with good performance.

In my view, this project can pave the way for Linux development for smartphones, as the user interacts with a standard Phosh desktop environment, so new apps can also be developed for the platform without the need of specialized hardware such as the Pinephone.

A good option for this could be the Thinkphone by Motorola device (codename bronco), as it is officially supported, has a good battery and a pretty recent SoC (SD8+Gen1) compared to most devices supported by Droidian/Ubuntu Touch/PostmarketOS. In my region it can be had for ~€250 brand new. When most other supported devices are Poco F1/Pixel 3a era, this is can be huge for smartphone Linux enthusiasts. Also, it's officialy supported by LineageOS as well.

Another device, that's even better supported by Droidian but pricier, is the Furilabs FLX1.