Ah! The poll has ended! I can report that only 11% of participants (1403 in total) still believe in #capitalism. Which perhaps does say something about the current mood here on Mastodon. And perhaps, who knows, gives us some courage to have more open discussions that we really do need alternatives and should talk about them, whether eco-socialism, eco-communism, or something else in entirely.

For now, some brief reflections on poll itself and responses. 1/n
mastodon.green/@pvonhellermann…

This entry was edited (7 months ago)
in reply to Pauline von Hellermann

#capitalism 2/n

The poll was not serious! I mean, i meant the question, but not serious, methodologically, as a poll. No poll on here ever is. In that spirit, I thought it would be funny to do a just “yes” and “no” poll. (And i liked how it cuts out all the crap).

Anyway, overall there were 4 types of responses:

1. People pointing out sloppy blurring btw ‘believing in its existence’and ‘believing in it as good system that works for us’. Noted, phrasing was sloppy. To be honest,

in reply to Pauline von Hellermann

#capitalism 3/n it did not occur to me to question its existence. Or to be even more honest, i quite liked the blurring. As one of you pointed out, it’s like wherher you still believe in Father Christmas 😊

2. People telling me that communism failed. Thank you - i appreciated this. I mean, like everyone else I went to sxhool and university and read newspapers where we are all bombarded by this message, day and night. It’s in our blood, our DNA, in our whole system. But good to be told again!

in reply to Pauline von Hellermann

#capitalism 4/n

3. People who believe in regulated capitalism, as in Scandinavia.
Yes, of course, that is nice. I used to believe in this too, I guess. But now, in 2024? When “regulated capitalism”, if it ever existed, is dismantled everywhere? Where we have the most rampant kind - because that’s what it is - eating and destroying everything and everyone? I do like Nancy Fraser’s #CannibalCapitalism.

Was slightly surprised that people still cling onto idea that regulation is possible.

in reply to Pauline von Hellermann

#capitalism 5/n

4. Lastly, people objecting to the “still”, as they never believed in it. Good point. I guess i meant it more collectively, whether as a society believe in it, and in that sense the “still” made sense for me. But also didn’t think it through too much.

Anyway, thank you all for participating, and for all your comments!

I now declare that this poll gives us a clear mandate: 89% of us do not believe in capitalism any more, if we ever did. Time to talk about alternatives!

in reply to Pauline von Hellermann

#capitalism 6/n

And yes. One alternative is communism. Which i would love to revisit personally. The soviet 1930s version failed - it doesn’t mean that a new 2030s version will! (I loved the passage in Ministry for the Future on this).

But also, there are so many other possibilities. We have had 100,000 years of humans with all sorts of ways of sorting out livelihoods in groups- and we can find new ones! 😊

in reply to Clockwork ☃️✒️

@clockwooork Thing is, you cannot have 'Capitalism in one Country', to misquote Josef Stalin. Pollution does not respect borders. #Capitalism always externalises costs.

So yes, if all the capitalists want to go to Mars and choke to death on their own effluent there, fine, knock yourselves out.

But if Earth is to survive, all the capitalists will have to repent -- or leave.

#ThereIsNoPlanetB

in reply to Pauline von Hellermann

#capitalism 7/7

Anyway, have to end with this great Christmas song by Martin Kerr (shared earlier here by @dbattistella)

God rest ye merry billionaires

"In Washington and London Town
you pay your lobby fees

You hold the reins of left and right
in sham democracies

And keep us entertained so we don’t know we’re on our knees “

Seasonal greetings everyone!

instagram.com/reel/DDNzyY3SyJq…

This entry was edited (7 months ago)
in reply to Pauline von Hellermann

There's never been a society that was a pure economic model.

Throughout history, economic systems were always a hybrid of public, private, charitable & criminal, with controls equally varied.

We know what has never worked; any attempt to have a "pure" system.

Pure capitalism is frying the planet & ending democracy.

Pure theocracy is driving Iran & Afghanistan into the dark ages.

Pure mafia is killing the Russian state.

Different processes need different solutions.

in reply to Pauline von Hellermann

China has a sort of regulated capitalism - it's certainly not communist and it's on its way to ruling the world. But it's a sorcerer's apprentice and what happens as it bumps up against physical limits will be challenging. What we've lost in the West (aka the Golden Billion - maybe a sixth of the world) is any sort of democratic say in where we're going. The Market must decide and it will always choose what suits the richest and most powerful in the shortest term.
in reply to Pauline von Hellermann

"Ministry for the Future", Kim Stanley Robinson

"Easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism: the old saying had grown teeth & was taking on a literal, vicious accuracy"

Big Oil decided to buy elections; it's a failure of imagination

Climate crises happen so often, folks treat it like mass shootings, "mourned by all, deplored by all, & then immediately forgotten or superseded by the next one, until they came in a daily drumbeat & became the new normal"

in reply to Pauline von Hellermann

#didyouknow?

#Money is a human invention,at its core,it has no intrinsic value. What gives it #power is the collective belief in its worth.Without that shared trust, money is nothing more than a made-up concept.If money only serves the top #1%, it leaves the majority of people with limited access to #economic power or opportunities.In such a scenario the very purpose of money—to enable mutual benefit and cooperation—becomes undermined,as it ceases to serve the collective good.