Feddit.org officially announces they will ban criticism of Israel and pro-Palestinian posts and comments.
Feddit.org announced today that they are changing their rules to match German law despite their server not being hosted in Germany.
Feddit.org now bans:
- The sentence "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free"
- Comparing Israel to the Nazis
- Calls to end Zionism
- Calling for the dissolution of Israel
And much more. The full original post can be found here, or
::: spoiler Click here for full text of original post:
Hi.
In the past few days, discontent regarding mod decisions in this community has been brewing, particularly when it comes to comments on Palestine, Israel, and Israeli politics and actions. There are also misunderstandings regarding mod intention and German law. We hope to clear that up with this post.
While the servers of feddit.org are in Austria, most of the mods of this community as well as admins of this server live in Germany. Speaking of, our server admins have also posted a write-up on the same topic.
And with that, let's go:
In Germany, antisemitism is specifically sanctioned in German criminal law, both for speech and as a motivation for other criminal behavior. In addition, Germany seeks to protect the Jewish state of Israel (the so-called "Reason of State" introduced in 2008) and thus verges toward protecting Zionism as well. Certain criticism of Israel/Israelis is also categorized as "Israel-related antisemitism".
Since criminal law is involved, enforcement can mean things like police raids and device confiscations. After such police action, it does not really matter if it was appropriate or if cases are dropped or never charged: The damage is done. All told, it's not that fun.
There is also no point in engaging in discussions about the veracity of statements that could get us into legal trouble. In addition, we believe that you can express most opinions without breaking rules.
If your comment contains the following, it will be removed from this community:
- Calling for the dissolution of Israel, or calling for a one-state solution without specifying equal rights for all people; Jewish in particular.
- Calling for a destruction, annihilation, an end of all Zionism or the like.
- Equating Israeli actions and (historical) Nazism.
- The slogan "from the river..."
- Endorsement of or justifications for Hamas or Hezbollah, or slogans or graphics positively referring to these organizations. These are considered terrorist organizations in Germany.
- ... and obviously: Any of the common antisemitic tropes or calls to violence against Jews or Israelis
Comments will not be removed for the following:
- Denouncing genocide.
- Denouncing Israeli war crimes.
- Criticizing Zionism as an ideology or political movement.
- Referring to the current Israeli government as "criminal," "expansionist," or "far-right".
If your comment is removed nonetheless, these are not the reason. I'd also like to stress that this community was never a free-speech-absolutist zone: It is a (usually lightly) moderated community. There may also be times when bans go too far. In such cases, please DM the @EuroMod@feddit.org account (which all mods have access to).
:::spoiler To help you understand why, I'll leave an assortment of sources here (translations via DeepL).
- A news report:
Berlin in mid-May [2024] around 6 o'clock in the morning. A loud, continuous "banging" against the apartment door wakes student Alina T. from her sleep. [...] When her husband opens the door, several LKA officers, two employees of the district office and the SEK "storm" past him into the apartment. Puzzled, he looks at the search warrant. [...] The background to this was a Facebook entry in the student's profile: "From the river [...]
- A legal treatise:
In November 2023, the Federal Ministry of the Interior and for Home Affairs also issued a prohibition order against Hamas.[60] According to the order, "the slogan 'From the River to the Sea' (in German or other languages)" is a distinguishing mark of Hamas[61].
[...] the current legal situation [regarding "Denial of Israel's right to exist"] is - contrary to what the statements of the Federal Ministry of Justice suggest[63] - anything but clear. Whether incitements to eliminate the State of Israel are prosecuted depends on the respective legal opinion and the prosecution will of the respective public prosecutor's office. - Press release from the previous government:
In this context, Section 111 StGB, which covers public incitement to commit crimes, may also be relevant. Incitement to extinguish Israel's existence by force may be punishable under this provision. The same applies to calls to publicly display the Hamas flag. If Hamas attacks are publicly cheered and celebrated, this may also be punishable.
This means that people who cheer on Hamas's actions or publicly express their sympathy with the attacks may constitute the criminal offence of "approval of criminal acts" under Section 140 of the German Criminal Code (StGB). - Another news report
> In connection with the controversial Palestine Congress in Berlin, the German authorities have also imposed an entry ban on former Greek finance minister Yanis Varoufakis. "In order to prevent antisemitic and anti-Israel propaganda at the event", several entry bans have been issued, the news agency AFP learned from security sources on Sunday. One of these concerned Varoufakis.
(Notably, Varoufakis would have spoken about one-state solutions ...) - Overview Germany in 2024 by Human Rights Watch
federal reverse (on behalf of the mods of !europe)
:::
Ist die Parole "From the river to the sea" zwangsläufig strafbar?
Seit dem 7. Oktober haben antisemitische Vorfälle in Deutschland stark zugenommen. Doch nicht hinter jedem Fall steckt eine strafbare Handlung. Auch bei bloßem Verdacht kann es zu Durchsuchungen kommen - und sogar zur Abschiebung.Iris Sayram (tagesschau.de)
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AwesomeLowlander
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toothbrush
in reply to IndustryStandard • • •It is because their admins are in Germany and they fear the extreme repercussion that the German State has done recently. Did you even read the post you pasted? Are are you intentionally trying to stir up drama?
Not everyone lives in safety these days. Fascism has made it hard to do things like host a volunteer run online forum safely. There are cases where the heavily armed anti-terrorism unit SEK search peoples houses at gun point for this. Do you think online moderators should be required to catch a bullet for your posts?
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stravanasu
in reply to toothbrush • • •like this
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console.log(bathing_in_bismuth)
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in reply to console.log(bathing_in_bismuth) • • •like this
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console.log(bathing_in_bismuth)
in reply to gremlinsgensss • • •like this
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gremlinsgensss
in reply to console.log(bathing_in_bismuth) • • •Only their most popular party (afd)
The billions they made out of selling
weapons to a genocidal country
The fact they bled Greece to death for bullshit debt rules and are now about to take a 1000 billion loan to buy bombs
The way they threat activists against the coal mines
Look I remember you nistzio. No I do not respect the law.
Lol you told an american to "go to gaza". Scumbag
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CosmoNova
in reply to IndustryStandard • • •~~Not being able to criticize leaders that the International Criminal Court has issued arrest warrants against is bonkers and simple censorship.~~
EDIT: After reading the official announcement thoroughly, I have to say the title seems... wrong? There are very specific things that are not allowed, some of which I can agree with. Others however, I do not.
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toothbrush
in reply to CosmoNova • • •like this
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gigachad
in reply to IndustryStandard • • •Despite all the culture of remembrance, despite all the memorials and despite all the history lessons, the general public is simply not aware of how efficiently, ruthlessly and industrially the Nazis carried out the Holocaust.
At its peak, in Operation Reinhard, from April to November 1942, 2.5 million Jews were murdered. 10,000 every day. In specially built camps to which people were transported by rail and sent directly to the gas chambers, where there was practically no chance of survival. In Majdanek, over 18,000 people were murdered in 9 hours. By 1945, two thirds of European Jews had been murdered and in the end only the advance of the Allies prevented the rest from being murdered as well.
This is the much-vaunted singularity of the Holocaust, namely the systematic, industrial murder in special murder factories. This industrial rate of murder is unique in the long history of genocides. Stalin's camps were cruel, but they were not extermination camps with gas chambers. This also applies to other genocides.
So if you honestly compare the Gaza War with the Holocaust, you quickly realize that it is something completely different. And anyone who seriously equates the two is trivializing the Holocaust to an extent that almost borders on Holocaust denial. This is guaranteed to lead someone here to call me a “genocide denier”, but: if Israel acted like the Nazis in the Gaza Strip, all the women and children would be dead by now and a few last surviving men would be maltreated to death as work slaves. And yes, we all know why Israel of all places is constantly compared to the Holocaust, even though there is no factual basis.
*automatically translated from a feddit.org user I very much agree with. Not citing the account to not disclose them to save them from brigading.
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IndustryStandard
in reply to gigachad • • •like this
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gremlinsgensss
in reply to gigachad • • •The Israelis used goddamn IA and bombed entire block because a software established a high enough probability that a some hamas goon might be there.
That's bullshit. The parallel is extremely warranted.
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gremlinsgensss
in reply to gigachad • • •"It's not a genocide because they didn't kill enough people yet" tells you everything you need to know about the indecency of the human race.
My family was a victim of Nazism and I'm not gonna accept for a bunch of Germans to tell me what I can call Nazi or not
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electric_nan
in reply to IndustryStandard • • •like this
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KoboldCoterie
in reply to IndustryStandard • • •This kind of seems... reasonable? Like, they have and convey a compelling legal reason for needing to do this. There's plenty of other Lemmy instances where these opinions and statements can be freely expressed. Further, they're explicitly allowing discourse that conveys similar sentiment but doesn't go against German law.
I guess my question is, what's the objection here?
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AwesomeLowlander
in reply to KoboldCoterie • • •like this
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Aatube
in reply to AwesomeLowlander • • •don't like this
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IndustryStandard
in reply to KoboldCoterie • • •They do not. Their servers are not hosted in Germany. If their moderators feel like they would be endangered for not following German law they should step down instead of applying their German censorship to a European server.
Their moderators and German users appear to proudly agree with these German censorship laws in the comments beneath their post. So the legal part looks more like a convenient excuse.
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rowdyrockets
in reply to IndustryStandard • • •like this
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frostysauce
in reply to rowdyrockets • • •like this
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in reply to frostysauce • • •like this
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NoneOfUrBusiness
in reply to IndustryStandard • • •like this
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in reply to NoneOfUrBusiness • • •like this
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Keeponstalin
in reply to AwesomeLowlander • • •This is the best solution.
Zionism is a fascist ideology. There is nothing to gain from hosting in a country where people feel compelled to suppress opposition to and liberation against that fascist ideology out of fear of incarceration and police brutality
Free Palestine
ACAB
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IndustryStandard
in reply to NoneOfUrBusiness • • •Feddit users commenting beneath it support this.
One of them made this "meme":
Feddit.org has also been banning users for things such as comparing Israel to the Nazis before they made this post. Then they owned up to it as their personal views. This is why they do not say they disagree with the German laws but they "do not wish to discuss it."
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JiveTurkey
in reply to IndustryStandard • • •like this
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Cris
in reply to JiveTurkey • • •like this
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IndustryStandard
in reply to Cris • • •You can do anything except demand things which could meaningfully resolve the issue.
People are not being allowed to call for the dissolution of the Israeli Apartheid government . They are only allowed to voice slight discontent with Israel.
Forcing people to call a major crime a minor crime is a massive form of repression in itself and it serves to downplay reality while pretending there is no censorship.
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Takapapatapaka
in reply to IndustryStandard • • •Calling a state criminal, expantionist, genocidal, brutal, saying that they should answer for their crimes, give back palestinian territories immediatly, be boycotted by the whole world, even be subject to military intervention is still perfectly fine, and that's clearly not "slight discontent". If you were conscious of this, you message is huge bad faith.
What they do not allow is calling for the end of Israel, in any way. That's indeed a major crackdown on freedom of expression, but it does not leave you wordless for Israel criticism, unless your only goal is to be against Israel, and you don't care being alongside Palestine.
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IndustryStandard
in reply to Takapapatapaka • • •Comparing them to the Nazis is banned.
This is banned
This is banned too. Every group doing this gets designated as a terrorist group.
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Takapapatapaka
in reply to IndustryStandard • • •Genocidal : again, genocide is NOT a nazi-only thing. And yes it's bad to not be able to equate, yet alone compare Nazis and Israel government. But you can still say 'Israel is genocidal'.
Palestinian territories : this is my bad, not an expert on the matter + did not think through. I meant territories destined to Palestinians in previous two-state solutions and at least recent territory annexion. From what the message says, you can still say that.
Military intervention : you can support the intervention without supporting people doing it. Also, you can support official interventions of other countries instead of guerrillas groups. The fact that most of those groups use terrorists methods, like targetting civilians (yes, those one that Israel and most states in the world also use) does not help with terrorism part, and i think we all agree that there should be no support for hamas or hezbollah directly, though they fight for objective we should defend. (and yes, Israel is doing worse for religious and racist reasons too, and they have a kind of immunity partly because of the anti-antisemitism rethoric partly because they are a state and states are rarely condemned for use of terrorist tactics, all of this is compatible).
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prole
in reply to Takapapatapaka • • •Little brother didn't know all of Palestine is within Israel.
Maybe learn a little bit more before making such confident statements about it.
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prole
in reply to Takapapatapaka • • •I'm sorry but how does any of that not fit into "calls to end Zionism"?
So, what, you can describe what they're doing but can't say you want it to stop?
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FundMECFS
in reply to IndustryStandard • • •Just FYI. There’s truth to this, but this post headline is very clickbait.
You’re still allowed to do things like call out the genocide, call the Israeli government facist etc.
What you can’t do is stuff like call for a violent overthrow of the state of Israel.
(Which I disagree with because since the status quo is violence I think violence is justified in overturning it)
But anyways. It’s less extreme than the headline suggests.
And also it’s in an effort to comply with German laws. (Which again, I disagree with, but I’m not the one at risk of getting raided here so yeah).
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daniskarma
in reply to IndustryStandard • • •I don't think they are actually zionist or pro-genocide. But they are definitely not good mods, and they just didn't handle it in a good way. It's not the first time I've seen problems with that community moderation team, they tend inho to powertrip. I suppose they are friends or the same people as feddit.org admins and that's why they defend them so much. But I don't think that moderation team is up to the task of moderating a big community.
Nothing wrong with it, moderation is hard, very hard. And not everyone is qualified for it. They should just step back. Or just close the community if they are so heavy censored by their country legislation.
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zeezee
in reply to IndustryStandard • • •I hadn't noticed how pro-cop some feddit.org users are but a cursory glance at people taking police reporting at face value and then openly defending cops punching people in the face with "it's out of context" reasoning is just surreal.
It reeks to me of living in a bubble your whole life and never having experienced police repression - so your only response is "it can't be the police, they've never done anything against me, it must be the protestors that are wrong"
Usually I'm one that hates leftist infighting but defacto trying to suppress a genocide because the "law says so" is rather weak. Still I totally understand wanting to protect yourself from repression but surely if you cared about both justice and your well being you would just hand over the community to someone else? Unless of course you actually agree with the "law"...
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Fredthefishlord, Blaze (he/him), drspod, prole, OBJECTION!, Turbonics, Dessalines, SRo, SpookyBogMonster, pepperjohnson, Downpour, leftzero, MysticKetchup, EmiMause, goferking (he/him), electric_nan, Clodsire, morgan423, Keeponstalin, ThorrJo, SourGumGum, Spectrism and JigglySackles like this.
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Kaboom
in reply to IndustryStandard • • •From the river to the sea is literally calling for genocide, the death of everyone who lives in Israel. It's good that they're banning it
Edit: this fucking site. Not sure if trolls, or they legitimately don't know
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woelkchen
in reply to IndustryStandard • • •I think the post in itself is informational, many of the comments are not.
Post stays, comments get locked.
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bitcrafter, ChilledPeppers, Mechanize, e8d79, Toastbrotmann, XPost3000, Clodsire, simple, Pissmidget, aramova, IndustryStandard, Black616Angel, nasi_goreng, adr1an, Eugene V. Debs' Ghost, flamingos-cant and DeeDan06 like this.
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