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macroblogging social media site, mastodon.eskimo.com a federated microblogging site, and yacy.eskimo.com an uncensored federated search engine. All Free!
A website developed for the UK Home Office's 2022 "flop" anti-encryption campaign has seemingly been hijacked to push a payday loan scheme. theregister.com/2025/06/25/hom…
For boring and totally not nefarious reasons, I want to read all the data contained in my passport's NFC chip using Linux. After a long and annoying search, I settled on roeften's pypassport.
I can now read all the passport information, including biometrics.
The NFC chip in a passport is protected by a password. The password is printed on the inside of the physical passport. As well as needing to be physically close to the passport for NFC to work0, you also need to be able to see the password. The password is printed in the "Machine Readable Zone" (MRZ) - which is why some border guards will swipe your passport through a reader before scanning the chip; they need the password and don't want to type it in.
I had a small problem though. I'm using my old passport1 which has been cancelled. Cancelling isn't just about revoking the document. It is also physically altered:
Cut off the bottom left hand corner of the personal details page, making sure you cut the MRZ on the corner opposite the photo.
So a chunk of the MRZ is missing! Oh no! Whatever can we do!?
The security is, thankfully, all fairly standard Public Key Cryptography - 9303 part 11 explains it in excruciating levels of detail.
One thing I found curious - because the chip has no timer, it cannot know how often it is being read. You could bombard it with thousands of password attempts and not get locked out. Indeed, the specification says:
the success probability of the attacker is given by the time the attacker has access to the IC, the duration of a single attempt to guess the password, and the entropy of the passport.
Passports are generally valid for only 10 years. So that's 36,525 possible expiry dates.
Passport holders are generally under 100 years old. So that's 3,652,500 possible dates of birth.
That's already 133,407,562,500 attempts - and we haven't even got on to the 1E24 possible passport numbers!
In my experiments, sending an incorrect but valid MRZ results in the chip returning "Security status not satisfied (0x6982)" in a very short space of time. Usually less than a second.
But sending that incorrect attempt seemed to introduce a delay in the next response - by a few seconds. Sending the correct MRZ seemed to reset this and let the chip be read instantly.
So, if you knew the target's passport number and birthday, brute forcing the expiry date would take a couple of days. Not instant, but not impossible.
Most commercial NFC chips support 100,000 writes with no limit for the number of reads. Some also have a 24 bit read counter which increments after every read attempt. After 16 million reads, the counter doesn't increment. It could be possible for a chip to self-destruct after a specific number of reads - but I've no evidence that passport chips do that.
The only library I needed to install was pyasn1 using pip3 install pyasn1 - your setup may vary.
Download PyPassport. In the same directory, you can create a test Python file to see if the passport can be read. Here's what it needs to contain: Python 3from pypassport import epassport, reader# Replace this MRZ with the one from your passportMRZ = "1234567897XXX8412139X2202299<<<<<<<<<<<<<<04"def trace(name, msg): if name == "EPassport": print(name + ": " + msg)r = reader.ReaderManager().waitForCard()ep = epassport.EPassport(r, MRZ)ep.register(trace)ep.readPassport() Plug in your NFC reader, place your passport on it, run the above code. If it works, it will spit out a lot of debug information, including all the data it can find on the passport.
The structure of the passport data is a little convoluted. The specification puts data into different "Data Groups" - each with its own ID.
By running: Python 3ep.keys() You can see which Data Groups are available. In my case, ['60', '61', '75', '77']
60 is the common area which contains some metadata. Nothing interesting there.
61 is DG1 - the full MRZ. This contains the holder's name, sex, nationality, etc.
77 is the Document Security Object - this was empty for me.
75 is DG2 to DG4 Biometric Templates - this contains the image and other metadata.
Dumping the biometrics - print( ep["75"] ) - gives these interesting pieces of metadata: '83': '20190311201345','meta': { 'Expression': 'Unspecified', 'EyeColour' : 'Unspecified', 'FaceImageBlockLength': 19286, 'FaceImageType': 'Basic', 'FeatureMask': '000000', 'FeaturePoint': {0: {'FeaturePointCode': 'C1', 'FeatureType': '01', 'HorizontalPosition': 249, 'Reserved': '0000', 'VerticalPosition': 216}, 1: {'FeaturePointCode': 'C2', 'FeatureType': '01', 'HorizontalPosition': 141, 'Reserved': '0000', 'VerticalPosition': 214}}, 'Features': {}, 'Gender': 'Unspecified', 'HairColour': 'Unspecified', 'ImageColourSpace': 'RGB24', 'ImageDataType': 'JPEG', 'ImageDeviceType': 0, 'ImageHeight': 481, 'ImageQuality': 'Unspecified', 'ImageSourceType': 'Static Scan', 'ImageWidth': 385, 'LengthOfRecord': 19300, 'NumberOfFacialImages': 1, 'NumberOfFeaturePoint': 2, 'PoseAngle': '0600B5', 'PoseAngleUncertainty': '000000', 'VersionNumber': b'010' } If I understand the testing document - the "Feature Points" are the middle of the eyes. Interesting to see that gender (not sex!) and hair colour are also able to be recorded. The "PoseAngle" represents the pitch, yaw, and roll of the face.
Passport images are saved either with JPEG or with JPEG2000 encoding. Given the extremely limited memory available photos are small and highly compressed. Mine was a mere 19KB.
To save the image, grab the bytes and plonk them onto disk: Python 3photo = ep["75"]["A1"]["5F2E"]with open( "photo.jpg", "wb" ) as f: f.write( photo ) As expected, the "FeaturePoints" co-ordinates corresponded roughly to the centre of my eyes. Nifty!
Yeah, I reckon so! Realistically, you aren't going to be able to crack the MRZ to read someone's passport. But if you need to gather personal information3, it's perfectly possible to do so quickly from a passport.
The MRZ is a Machine Readable Zone - so it is fairly simple to OCR the text and then pass that to your NFC reader.
And even if the MRZ is gone, you can reconstruct it from the data printed on the passport.
Of course, this won't be able to detect fraudulent passports. It doesn't check against a database to see if it has been revoked4. I don't think it will detect any cryptographic anomalies.
But if you just want to see what's on your travel documents, it works perfectly.
In diesem Video spricht Philip Hopf mit Anabel Schunke!Warum kriegen wir kaum noch Kinder in Deutschland? Anabel Schunke und Philip Hopf im Streitgespräch🛒 ...
🚨Le vice-président américain Jay D. Vance : « La #Russie et la #Chine ne veulent pas que l'Iran se dote de l'arme nucléaire. » Il a ajouté que la prolifération nucléaire au Moyen-Orient serait « une catastrophe pour tous ». Premièrement, la Russie et la Chine ne veulent aucune ingérence des #États-Unis dans leurs affaires intérieures, sous quelque forme que ce soit. Et tous ceux qui font des déclarations au nom de nos deux pays, mais sans mandat de leur part, feraient bien de commencer par là. Par exemple, ne pas fournir de missiles meurtriers au régime terroriste de Kiev, ne pas militariser Taïwan, etc. Deuxièmement, la Russie et la Chine s'expriment elles-mêmes : les déclarations correspondantes sur l'agression d'Israël et des États-Unis ont été publiées par les ministères des Affaires étrangères des deux pays. Troisièmement, la Russie et la Chine estiment que l' #Iran (comme tout autre pays) peut et doit déterminer lui-même sa stratégie de développement de l'énergie #nucléaire conformément au droit international, en particulier au TNP, et que les autres États peuvent également fonder leur position à cet égard sur le droit international. Quatrièmement, l'Iran a développé l'énergie nucléaire à des fins pacifiques, ce à quoi il a pleinement droit, et n'a pas fabriqué d'armes nucléaires, ce qui a été confirmé à plusieurs reprises tant par Téhéran que par l'AIEA. Cinquièmement, un peu d'histoire. L'idée d'un #Moyen-Orient exempt d'armes nucléaires a peut-être été évoquée pour la toute première fois dans une déclaration de l'agence de presse soviétique, qui était alors la voix officielle de Moscou, le 22 janvier 1958 : « Le Proche et le Moyen-Orient doivent et peuvent devenir une zone de paix, où il n'y a pas et ne doit pas y avoir d'armes nucléaires et de missiles, une zone de bon voisinage et de coopération amicale entre les États ». En 1974, l'Iran, qui subit aujourd'hui les frappes d' #Israël et des États-Unis, a lancé un débat sur ce sujet à l'Assemblée générale des Nations unies, qui s'est conclu par l'adoption de la résolution « Création d'une zone exempte d'armes nucléaires dans la région du Moyen-Orient ». 128 pays ont voté « pour », dont l'Union soviétique et les États-Unis. Israël s'est abstenu. L'URSS/Russie s'est systématiquement prononcée en faveur de la création d'une zone exempte d'armes nucléaires au Moyen-Orient. À l'heure actuelle, le seul État de la région à posséder l'arme nucléaire est Israël, qui ignore systématiquement les initiatives visant à créer une zone exempte d'armes nucléaires au Proche-Orient et qui, désormais, bombarde conjointement avec les États-Unis l'Iran, qui ne possède pas l'arme nucléaire. Alors, que voulait dire M. #Vance ? @BPARTISANS
Hello 🌏 ! We're Phosh.mobi e.V. a small non profit organization supporting the project in building a #LinuxMobile first user environment for everyone. You find us at ev.phosh.mobi
#Israel is almost out of weapons and if #Iran keeps pummeling for another week, Tel Aviv will soon look like #Gaza.
Israely Occupying Forces can only win a fight against civilians, killing children in #Gaza is their only "success" story.
The #USA basically tried to save face by pretending they did something (a very expensive hole on a mountain) to stop the war #terrorist #Netanyahu was losing.
#Israel is almost out of weapons and if #Iran keeps pummeling for another week, Tel Aviv will soon look like #Gaza.
Israely Occupying Forces can only win a fight against civilians, killing children in #Gaza is their only "success" story.
The #USA basically tried to save face by pretending they did something (a very expensive hole on a mountain) to stop the war #terrorist #Netanyahu was losing.
Dans un post #Telegram, Pavel Durov, fondateur de l’appli cryptée, a taclé sans ménagement la presse française. Après son arrestation controversée à Paris en août 2024, le patron de Telegram dénonce une campagne de dénigrement systématique – et Le Monde en tête. Analyse d’un règlement de comptes qui en dit long sur l’état de notre paysage médiatique.
Premier grief de Durov : son interview fleuve accordée à Tucker #Carlson, vue des millions de fois sur YouTube… mais passée à la trappe par tous les journaux français. « Aucune couverture », souligne-t-il, avec un émoji silence en guise de pied de nez. Étrange, pour un pays si prompt à s’indigner dès qu’un entrepreneur ose critiquer l’ordre établi. Oubli involontaire ? Plutôt une omission bien pratique, tant le récit de Durov – détaillant son interpellation ubuesque – dérange.
People are really surprised that a city full of immigrants who were given free shit when they got here voted for an immigrant promising more free shit?
with Bezo's money I would think he could find a stable woman to marry instead of this plastic surgery addict. But, you have to be stable to find stable... so it is what it is...
@Otto Pureblood I don't care to look it up, but I heard that he rented out all of Venice, if such a thing is possible. What a silly man. Imagine getting the milk for free and still buying the cow.
Israel's defence minister says Madleen passengers will be shown video of 7 October attacks
Katz said he wanted them to “see exactly who the Hamas terrorist organization they came to support and for whom they work is, what atrocities they committed against women, the elderly, and children, and against whom Israel is fighting to defend itself.” 🤬
These fucking idiots of BBC made a complaint and they don't mention the location of the blockade and torture of their journalist. They care so much about their staff... bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/statemen…
CIA agent is the head of BBC middle east coverage. https://mastodon.world/@Captain_Jack_Sparrow/113789695471420229
"Raffi Berg, an Englishman who heads the BBC’s Middle East desk, formerly worked for the U.S.
Associated Press after 20 months of #genocide still use (not neutral) offensive language against Palestinian victims. After dozens of times the whole planet saw #IOF kill Palestinians in mass waiting for aid distribution, AP uses the words "Palestinians say". Genocide perpetrators.
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“Tel Aviv's defiance and Washington's duplicity have shattered every last bit of Moscow's illusions of diplomacy, forcing the Kremlin to reckon with the collapse of its balancing act in West Asia – and even Ukraine”
Tel Aviv's defiance and Washington's duplicity have shattered every last bit of Moscow's illusions of diplomacy, forcing the Kremlin to reckon with the collapse of its balancing act in West Asia – and even Ukraine.
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was ich mit dem newsletter unter anderem bauen will, ist eine brücke für liberal fühlende menschen in den linksradikalismus. fnordon.de/@mspro/114742334060…
Angehängt: 1 Bild
in krasse links no 57 denke ich unter anderem über mein verhältnis zum gerade verrückt werdenden liberalismus nach. https://mspr0.de/krasse-links-no-57/
I had such a crush on Jennifer Connelly when I was younger. She has aged very very well, but she has lost some of her shine for me when I found out she was a left winger. While I have never seen her front and center at demonstrations, I have heard her comment on left wing issues, abortion chief among them.
Let's see reactions for one of the Russian heroes who took action to sabotage the military machine of Russian #imperialism. Let's see if they will raise their voices against this unjustified sentence. All of these european "democrats" who call just for armaments, serving the interests of bourgeoisie of #EU, #Russia and #USA, will speak out or they will still fuel the war machine of imperialist powers with russophobia and #racism? #militarism #warmongers #FuckTheWar #smashwar
For everyone: don't forget to follow @avtonom_org! You can also donate: avtonom.org/pages/donate. Real change in Russia comes from below, so let's support that!
"Автономное действие" — анархистская организация, основанная в 2002 году. Наша цель — заложить основу для новой культуры, построенной на самоорганизации и свободной от любых форм угнетения.
Yesterday we had proofs that IAEA worked with the zionist entity and #IsraelTerroristState bombed civilians in Tehran during the night. But the report of euronews avoid to write this and just writes that Iran was not cooperating.
IAEA's head now states "that nuclear science in Iran cannot be destroyed by military operations, aggression, or terror". IAEA's personnel gave instructions to zionists and Americans to bomb the nuclear facilities of #Iran. Complicity. It's obvious that this international institute, for the safety of nuclear energy, acts as the long hand of imperialist powers. Rafael Grossi is complicit on a possible nuclear "accident" beforehand. english.almayadeen.net/news/po…
UNICEF reports that the number of malnourished children in the #Gaza Strip is rising at an alarming rate, with 5,000 children diagnosed with malnutrition in May alone.
Yesterday the western media were cheering a(nother) criminal hit of #IsraelTerroristState against oil and petrol depots in #Tehran. Let's see their reaction for the counteract which damaged the same things in #Haifa. t.me/QudsNen/169609
#US intelligence confirms what we all knew: "B-2s did not destroy #Iran's nuclear program" Trump denies assessment and attacks #CNN and #NYTimes for publishing it.
Αnother abysmal US military failure. We've lost count...
"I think we're beyond words at the moment. We're into the final solution, where you intentionally create a famine while you're killing people so you can make sure that the wounded die of the fact that their bodies are incapable of healing." Ghassan Abu-Sittah Conflict Surgeon. Head of Division of Plastic Surgery and founder of Conflict Medicine Program, American University of Beirut Medical Center.
„Wir müssen die überzeugen, die sich nicht impfen lassen wollen.“
„Die #Impfpflicht kann kein Tabu sein [...] Wir müssen schneller werden beim Impfen, wir müssen die überzeugen, die sich nicht #impfen lassen wollen. Und die, die sich nicht impfen lassen wollen, denen sagen ich: #Freiheit kommt auch einher mit Verantwortung. Wir werden nicht zulassen, dass diejenigen, die sich diszipliniert verhalten, die an #Wissenschaft glauben, die nicht daran glauben, dass die Erde eine Scheibe ist, dass die weiterhin leiden müssen unter denjenigen, die glauben, dass sie Sonderrechte genießen. Alle #Bürger sind gleich im Land und niemand steht über dem Gesetz und niemand steht über dem Recht. [...] "
Congrats NYC, you elected a Socialist with no experience to be the Dem candidate for mayor to run against the current mayor who is running as an Ind, and Curtis Sliwa as the Rep candidate, I have complete faith in you going full socialist. Oh, and you also decided that Alvin Bragg was doing a great job as Manhattan DA, as he won in a landslide. Possible mayor who wants to defund the PD, and a soft on crime DA. 2026 is going to be a stellar year.
My wife recently died. She was extremely passionate about lbgtq+ rights. What is a charity doing good work for trans kids that we can send donations to in her name in lieu of flowers?
The European Space Agency (ESA) confirms the launch of the first two LEO-PNT satellites is planned from second half of December 2025, on a Rocket Lab Electron launcher vehicle, from New Zealand. The LEO-PNT in-orbit demonstrator mission is a pioneer mission for Europe that will advance satellite navigation concepts for resilient positioning and timing services.
While satellites have revolutionised our ability to measure sea level with remarkable precision, their data becomes less reliable near coasts – where accurate information is most urgently needed. To address this critical gap, ESA’s Climate Change Initiative Sea Level Project research team has reprocessed almost two decades of satellite data to establish a pioneering network of ‘virtual’ coastal stations. These stations now provide, for the first time, reliable and consistent sea-level measurements along coastlines.
NZ pulls out of global coalition for phasing out fossil fuels
The New Zealand government has quietly pulled out of an international coalition for phasing out fossil fuels
https://www.odt.co.
What the fuck does being jewish have to do with this? jew derangement syndrome is getting out of hand... this has nothing to do with religion or ethnicity...
@beyourowndragon should be and is is 2 different things. Shoulda, coulda, woulda, aint worth shit. Honestly I disagree will all foreign aid altogether and all lobbying. Foreign or domestic. It keeps politicians from just doing the right thing. But my opinion is just my opinion and its unpopular to boot.
Around 16 billion login credentials have been leaked online, potentially affecting services like Apple, Google, Facebook, and more. Here’s what to do if your data is leaked.
Stablecoins create demand for government bonds, yet governments (except USA) aren't fond of stablecoins. Not sure why they hate such an obvious source of low interest borrowing
brings back memories - some bad but mostly good. I took it upon myself to decorate the outside of the cubicles with various artists - changing the exhibits monthly so it was so dreary
Affiliate Links Thinking of launching a business in a small town? These smart business ideas are perfect for close-knit communities where opportunity is often overlooked.
The EU High Representative for Foreign Affairs spoke exclusively to Shona Murray in the Hague at the NATO summit in the Hague for Euronews' live Europe Today show.
@villebooks her language is dangerous. She speaks for a politician like Putin with words that are extremely offensive. She knows that the western media will never represent the voice of the "other" side so she and the chorus continue to benefit the US, german, french industries (who are under extreme crisis for many years, because their chinese competitors crashed them) while they destroy their "ex"-colonies for raw minerals. Also she knows that she or her children will never go to fight. The children of the working class will be the meat for her profit.
La poésie, c’est « la dispersion qui a trouvé sa forme ». P. Blanchot « Je peins pour rendre hommage aux femmes dans la peinture contemporaine à travers l’art.
Tansu Çiller, and the corruption of her neoliberal government, was one of the primary drivers of the neoliberalism-to-fascism pipeline* in Turkey that exacerbated inequality, alienated and marginalised huge swaths of the population, and eventually led to Erdoğan’s fascist/Islamist takeover.
Carve her name, indeed; right next to Margaret Thatcher’s.
Attached: 1 image
#OnThisDay, 25 June 1993, Tansu Çiller wins a vote of confidence to become prime minister of Turkey. She was the first woman to hold the post.
#WomenInHistory #OTD #History #WomensHistory
These are 6th graders — young kids — who first heard the song on a recent Monday. They practiced it each day until Friday, all in the middle of their school exams. Then they recorded it 4 times, the 3rd time being the one they felt was the best and is shown here, with another audio track overlaid to round it off for YouTube.
Source: less
Breakfast in America - written by the amazing Roger Hodgson of Supertramp - cover by the Graystones
Just watched Starmer being asked why the UK needs these nuclear capable F35s (clip not out yet, but here is the article)
Allow me to cut through a minute of waffle that was his reply..
'We need them because we haven't got any'
And now the unspoken part..
'Small dick syndrome'
Put aside the Labour label. Starmer is a pathetic, jingoistic, arrogant, dogmatic, nationalist, hard for war, who gets off on playing Churchill. Given time, he'll prove dangerous
As part of a push to rearm, Sir Keir Starmer will give the Royal Air Force the ability to carry air-borne nuclear warheads for the first time since the 1990s.
Federated Services are services which many instances form a network to provide a greater whole than the sum of their parts, each participant in the Fediverse is an “instance”. A message or other item made available on one instance is visible and available on other instances.
We make these services available to all people who do not abuse it in order to promote the values of Free Speech, and those of the United States Constitution First Amendment. A free republic is not possible without free speech and commercial mainstream media do not provide it. We also get some advertisement benefit from hosting these, it is our hope that people who see how fast and responsible our services are will decide to do hosting or use other paid services here.
There are numerous federated services available, we offer Macrobloging platform Friendica, Hubzilla; Microbloging services Mastodon, Misskey, a federated search engine, Yacy, and a federated cloud service, Nextcloud.
Macrobloging services are message systems that allow long form posts similar in format to Facebook. These allow for works of fiction, poetry, technical papers, news items, short stories, and more. These formats are most useful for discussion of social issues.
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If the government instantly magiced 320,000 homes, we would meet today's demand. This includes an expected 5% turnover figure (i.e. for sale). Currently turnover is less than 1%
I'm under 40. 55,000 people sat the leaving cert exams when I did, 20 years ago. In 2024 that number was 61,000.
You'd need to make at least 80,000 new homes a year to keep up with today's demand - even after magically creating 320,000 homes. More in 10 - 15 years time.
The Irish government will make the entire country a "Rent Pressure Zone", negating the commonly understood meaning of the word Zone... Becoming "Rent Pressure".
They say these plans are to incentivise institutional investors... There are already incentives, such as:
* No Corporation Tax or CGT * 24 month rent control reset * HAP & HTB increasing prices * RTB exemption for "Co-Living Spaces"
Meanwhile, in the last year prices are up 12.3%. Up 40% in the last 5 years - 100k for a median home.
€600k is the current price of a 3 bed semi-detached house in Dublin.
John and Mary (34 yo) need a minimum €60k deposit and must have a combined income of €135k - or €68k each - to purchase this home. Their mortgage is €540k.
With a BER rating of C, the most common for second hand homes, their interest rate is 3.2%.
Each month, for the next 30 years, they will pay €2,335.
It will take them 101 months (~8 ½ years) to start paying more principal than interest. They will be 42 years old
Good thing they’re 34. If either were 44, they couldn’t even get that 30-year mortgage and would be paying that same amount every month on a €470k home. Ask me how I know 😀
They want to keep prices up on purpose. I don't ever see myself retiring from work as a result. I'm trying to accept I'll never truly have my own place, but that's a tough thing to accept, especially as I get older.
little to disagree with here but "So no, your parents didn't have it harder. They had it handed to them - and pulled the ladder up." is not a viable analysis when many in the 80s paid 17pc interest rates and waited 10 years for a council house and then got offered to buy one for little money because Thatcherism.
My point being that they too were living in conditions not of their own making.
I've heard both sides--the supporting arguments and the dissenting of those writing in multiple threads and across forks of threads--regarding the asking of Mary to pray for us.
Here's why it's strange:
Where is even an approximating equal emphasis on Joseph? He was the male of the chosen family, the man to oversee the newborn Christ. He too received a visitation from a messenger, announcing--independent of the visitation to Mary.
Why not an equal *or even greater emphasis* on asking Moses? Someone so holy (meaning set aside for God's purposes) as to have been at the transfiguration; as to have led the Israelites across a parted sea (after having performed other wonders); as to have written five books of scripture; as to have overseen the construction of the ark of the covenant.
Why not *at least an equal emphasis* on David? Scriptually described as "a man after God's own heart"--so much so that it was promised the rule of his line would never end, such that Christ is called the branch from the root of Jesse (David's father). It is only for this promise from God to David that Mary is even considered as it were.
Why such an emphasis instead on "the mother"?
It's because we have the Father, the Son, and so need the...
And that's it. That's the beg.
After a more extreme fashion, the Gnostics instead fill this in with Sophia (the feminine Wisdom). (And they are wrong to do so.)
No, friends, you don't have to run into protestantism's clearly broken arms and kneel into their awkward (i.e. broken) support. You are free to see that the arms that *are holding you* though are also fucked up.
The lack of admittance of this is, in fact, why the myriad fractals of protestantism (and all of its faults) began.
This doesn't touch the more broad topic of asking the dead to intercede. (inb4 "It's asking the living to intercede. They're not dead." I'm not arguing their state with that statement. You know what a woman is; you know what I mean by dead.)
I almost find the broader topic unnecessary to address because--of all the dead--Mary is the go-to GOAT, the frequent, the common, the mentioned, the Hail Mary.
I would go so far as to say the broader idea is held fervently primarily for the sake of being able to ask Mary to intercede.
Whats funny about your last paragraph is that I am "catholic" i.e. other catholics I kbow consider me to be one (its like being a iew, you cant stop) even though i hate catholicism. Whenever i hear about them wanting to pray to this or that person, its some "Saint of.." something or other, not Mary.
They only talk about mary when you point out Matthew clearly states she didnt die a virgin.
It's more fundamental. We certainly believe Mary, being specially chosen in a way that differs from the others you mentioned, holds a special place. Moses disobeyed God and was punished, etc. Mary was bestowed with an ongoing grace prior even to Christ's conception, in a way that is unique to her. She held Him within her womb. But that doesn't get to the heart of why this is a futile discussion.
Abandoning the practice because someone thinks they have a better way of thinking about things just isn't how we work. It's the same with the other saints.
We aren't going to stop changing what we've been doing for the entire recorded history of the Church, any more than we are going to add some new books to Scripture, or take some out. Someone can point out that a particular church father or two thought Mary was vain or sinful, just like someone can say that a particular church father denied the canonicity of Revelation. But the overwhelming opinion of the saints, and the councils we rely on, give us no reason to reconsider either position.
This actually gets to the core of another argument that will cause a hellthread. Whether or not Mary sinned.
There's two thoughts there, either all but Christ has sinned and therefore she did- there's also the fact that Mary called Jesus her savior, if she was without sin she wouldn't need a savior- or because she was righteous enough to be chosen for the task of baring the Christ child that she wasn't just exceptionally pure but totally pure.
I'm not sure which priests you're talking to but the CCC states very clearly (para 493 here): vatican.va/content/catechism/e… ) that she did not sin during her life. It's not de fide/dogma, but it is the historic teaching which individuals are generally bound to believe.
This reminds me of how women love to talk about how special it is to be a mother when all you did was let a dude shoot cum in you and push a baby out 9 months later
She carried a child just like billions of females have. The child is what was special and she played no part. This doesnt mean she wasnt a very devout Israelite. She was. Tte gospel of james strongly atrests to this. Even if it wasnt "inspired", it still pretends to record believed history written at the time she lived. But catholics take it far beyond that and bestow special powers on her
>Only she can truly and accurately be described as the literal portal through which God entered the world and human history.
This is not correct. God walked the earth in many other forms, some very human. He met with Abraham and wrestled with Jacob. Jesus was a particular manifestation he took for a particular purpose, to fulfill a particular prophecy pertaining to the salvation of Israelites who had been cut off.
>Statements about her, are therefore statements about Him.
No, statements about Mary would not be statements about Christ.
For the sake of argument, let's begin with your claim being true.
If Mary being the portal by which He received His Human Nature makes it so that statements about Mary are statements about Him, then it follows *necessarily* that statements about Mary's mother (and father, but we'll leave that alone for simplicity) are statements about Him, as Mary received *her* human nature from her mother.
And so on the logic *necessarily* flows until you *must* say (by the demand of the logic of the claim, not by the convenient point at which the claim wants one to stop) that statements about even Eve--and every woman from the direct line of Eve to Mary--are statements about Him.
Let's apply the distinction that the previous women were indirect portals while Mary is the direct portal. This suddenly drops the distinction--the inheritance of the human nature--that we said made Mary distinct in the first place (that which she gave to Christ). The logic of the claim rends the claim.
Aside from the beg of "Father, Son, and... ?" the entire wrestling of Mary's nature and the elevation of her status is from trying to satisfy the question of "How is Christ sinless, though born of a fallen person--when that is the same way by which one is said to be in sin? What is different about Christ's state?" The answer is not something special about someone other than Christ--not even Mary.
I trace the reasoning and the answer in the one omni-comment (lol) I wrote to address all above comments in the other fork of this thread, here:
(In the green text below, I'm not quoting the comment immediately above. I'm quoting the points within this fork of the thread that were in response to my OP as well as the responses to those, in o...
You keep talking about long dead men im not terribly concerned with. Im not citing anyone or repeating anothers opinion. I think that logically the idea that God "inherited" something for Mary is false. The creation doesnt give to the creator.
Im genuinely not trying to be confrontational. I just disagree with things you say from a logical standpoint, based on what the bible does say, not what it doesnt.
>Therefore as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned— 13 sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.
I think we are off track. When you said "Mary gave God his himanity" or however you phrased it. it made it sound like she had soemthing he did not. Furthermore it makes it sound like she has something other humans do not (well it has to be Mary yadda yadda).
Yes, a human can "give" God a physical "gift" like a sacrifice, whether it is tangible or not (take this sheep - I will stop drinking). But a human can not "give" God something he doesnt already have, and they definitely cant impart anything on Him. He doesnt "need" us. This is a very jewish way of thinking, as if jews say these sorts of things, not that you are being jewish🙄. Like how they thinl they can trick Him, as if God is a man like you and I and vall fall for guile.
I'm not claiming my views are new. I'm just saying they aren't based on another persons opinion. I didn't really even know who he was until you said it.
>Survivorship bias is the logical error of concentrating on entities that passed a selection process while overlooking those that did not. This can lead to incorrect conclusions because of incomplete data.
I find this very pertinent in most theological discussions.
I posted am article the other day about rape in ultra orthodoz jewish communities. This rabbi saw a 7 year old boy speared on some dude in a bath house, and he was destroyed for talking about it. These are the people whp control judaism. Now im not saying the early church fathers raped kids, but only that people want to assume their actions were divinely guided without evidence to it. Its Dues ex machina. >well God made it this way to move the plot forward Okay...but where is the evidence? >Well God did it so stop questioning God.
The early church fathers didnt even know enough to understand who the lost Israelite were, even though Jesus explicitly says it, and that He came only for them. Its a basic logic problem. So forgive me if im skeptical about their opinions when built on a faulty foundation. 🤷♀️
Saw an anecdote about a woman in the park yelling if anyone wants some ice cream, so i went and stood in line and she asked me "who are you, you arent part of our family reunion."
No i know this. And youre a good sport. Im glad we keep it civil and o hope you dont think im beimg an ass. I just dont think thats what it says. The bible isnt all anout 1 people group only then suddenly anout a mystical "body of believers" just because they wanted it to be. In tye same way the edomites couldnt become Israelites by being called "jews."
You have to accept thst there are some groups who literally can never recieve eternal life because it says so so many times.
Hebrews 8:8 says only the house of israel and judah will receive the new covenant. Quoting jer 30:30.
Also Gal 3 >6 Thus Abraham “believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.” 7 So you see that it is men of faith who are the sons of Abraham
The faith is not YOURS. The faith was Abrahams. It explicitly says this. Again in verse 29
> 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.
If you belong to Christ, then you are the SEED of Abraham. No one who belongs to Christ is not Abrahams seed. Put differently, if you are not biologically the seed of Abraham, you do not belong to Christ. Full stop. And the word SEED is a biological word. The Greeks had no idea what a "spiritual" seed might be. It is the same word.
You cannot wish your way into a covenant between 2 foreign parties anymore than you can show up at tlmy will reading and ask for money.
Ive had all these arguments years ago here which is why i generally dont this anymore, but that doesnt say what you think it does. And if it DOES, then Paul contradicts himself frequently and isnt inspired.
I think anyone would agree that there are claims not explicit in the text of scripture but that can (and should) be extrapolated. For example, in the four testimonies Christ doesn't say explicitly the exact words "I am God"--and atheists think that's a trump. But we know that we can extrapolate from "before Abraham was, I AM" and other statements He gives, and we know that God had previously said He would come and gather His sheep scattered, that He would be the good shepherd--and many more points in scripture that clearly support and necessitate that Christ is God. We can extrapolate clearly to the conclusion. And then more conclusions from there, sure.
So it isn't automatically false when someone states something not explicitly stated in scripture, we see--but there must be the basis in scripture *and* it must not contradict other passages of scripture (unless one also claims the specific passage contradicting is a later addition that doesn't belong or was corrupted, whether purposefully or by accident).
No where does scripture explicitly say that Mary was sinless, and no where in scripture is there a passage that implicitly necessitates that she was sinless. It does however say in scripture that none were righteous, that all were fallen, and it does say that the Israelites--and Mary was an Israelite--were condemned to death by the law, as the Bride had been adulterous. These--which are in scripture--would contradict Mary being sinless.
The reason Mary not being sinless matters (in the context of this conversation, not as a whole) is that the claims the RCC makes about her (that she did not die an earthly death and/or that she chose to set aside her life) are only necessary *if* she were sinless. And we know from scripture that it *cannot be* that she was sinless, as she was 1) of Adam, 2) an Israelite--meaning of the Bride condemned by the law, as told by God through the prophets as we have received through scripture, regardless of a recieved (man-handled) tradition offering a contradiction that's not scripturally based and is an unnecessary exception.
The reason this matters is that this inflation of Mary's nature is the basis for the inflated emphasis of Mary's role or ability in intercession.
I would point out that the beat of "The Father, the Son, and the... " begs for "Mother", and the RCC puts Mary in that role--not going so far as to make her God-- but "Mother of us all," "sinless," "Queen in Heaven," "closest to God for intercession."
A typology of Eve seems diluted and inflated, consumed, lost in the sauce, by a member-of-the-Godhead typology given to Mary by the language and claims of Mary's nature the RCC uses ("sinless," "Mother of us," "Queen in Heaven," "closest to God for intercession," etc.). Granted, of course, not quite a Mother that's part of the Godhead, but approaching closer to that than to only the nature, role, and importance explicitly given in scripture or that which can be extrapolated with a scriptural basis.
I read that - thanks for clarifying! I'll post here so I'm not jumping in your convo.
For me, it's a pair of simple thought processes. We're called to pray for each other > The prayers of the righteous are valuable > The saints are living witnesses = It's okay to pray for saints.
Second, we see that Mary has /some/ special place. Being called κεχαριτωμένη, the contrast in typology to Eve seen with her being called "Woman," her lack of earthly death, the way Christ entrusted her to the Apostle John as an adoptive mother suggesting that she is a spiritual mother who cares for us. So, placing her above the other saints seems fitting.
I think it can be taken too far (just like any good thing; a devotion to icons or a focus on the letter of the law). But our belief that she is sinless is more focused on who she is, rather than our desire to have her intercede for us. I don't know that it would really degrade her place as the greatest of saints if she had sinned. The sinlessness really comes from a combination of how the angel addressed her, the typology she represents, and the traditions that followed in the early church. I'd argue that, even if saintly intercession weren't a thing, the idea of Mary's sinlessness would still be a widely-held and fitting concept.
I'm setting aside one larger categorical objection (praying that saints intercede on our behalf)--assuming a stance that that is fine--for the sake of more specifically addressing the quantitative objection: that Mary is given--among those asked to intercede--an emphasis that I think is misplaced.
Hand-in-hand with this quantitative objection though goes the categorical objection of Mary's sinlessness. It's unnecessary for her to have been sinless.
I just now wrote a more full response to Sulla_Felix in this fork, further clarifying, if you want to look there. If you want to respond there or come back here, keeping them separate, either is fine. 🍻
Weird, the Orthodox you've spoken to may be referring to the idea that she is still subject to the fallen nature of humanity (though not any personal sin), or they may be poorly catechized. Or their churches have been lying to me 😅
Re: Ephesus you said she was "named" and I thought you meant the Council gave her a title, rather than affirming something that had been in use before. No prob.
Obviously there are heretical sects like the Palmarians or various South American "Catholic" groups that take Mary veneration too far. But the apostolic churches all uniformly orient their worship exclusively toward God, and Mary is not the focus of the liturgy/Mass.
When you say "overemphasize" do you mean that there's a fundamental problem with how the church views/allows a veneration of Mary, which leads to some people focusing more on her than God? Or that individuals are performing an acceptable practice and taking it too far? You say things like "overemphasize" but it also sounds like your objections may be more categorical than quantitative, and I don't want to strawman you.
>Where do you get the idea the EO don't go as far as the RCC? Orthodoxy holds to the sinlessness of Mary, I don't think any of the EO churches teach otherwise.
Talking to Orthobros, friend. 🤷 By "Orthodoxy doesn't go as far," I only leave room because--though every Catholic with whom I've talked about this says that Mary is sinless--some Orthodox (whether it may be according to their tradition or not--whether that's specifically Greek, Russian, or what-have-you) have said instead that Mary was not sinless. If they have stated what is counter to Orthodoxy (or their specific branch), then that bears on their point rather than mine.
>Ephesus 431 Have more care with what I am saying. I haven't claimed anyone *began* calling Mary 'Theotokos' at this council (nor did I limit the scope to one council, and I'll say the reason for that in a second--I understand why you have referred to this one, as it's during this one that there's discussion on specifically continuing or altering the used title for Mary).
What I said is that there was choosing what to call Mary based upon views (which isn't a criticism)--and that is true of both a) those at the council trying to call Mary something new and b) those at the council choosing to continue what they had been calling her.
My point was that there was discussion of Mary (her title and her role) that extended directly from discussion of Christ's nature. (The discussion of Christ's nature need not be *during* the council. Nestorius posited the new title for Mary because of discussions about Christ's nature.) Some also discuss Mary's nature by extension. (I am not limiting the scope of this to councils. Not all claims about Mary were made in councils. Some are made within sects--even the largest ones.)
The reason I left the scope as wide as "councils" rather than naming Ephesus is because these conversations carry from one council to the next, by extensions--even questions not within a previous council, but arising after a previous council, often due to points from a previous council, leading to topics in the next. (Example: We could talk about how the view of Apollinaris addressed long before Ephesus affected the view (like a guard rail) of Nestorius and so affected the topic at Ephesus.) Both views--Apollinaris and Nestorius--were about Christ's nature--and it did lead to discussions about Mary.
All of that aside, remember that the larger (original) point of the post is that there is an overemphasis on asking Mary to intercede and addressing why that is the case--not whether she in the flesh bore Christ in the flesh (as everyone in this thread agrees she did), and not on whether she should be called Theotokos (as the title and the concept--as far as her having born Christ--isn't the concern).
Where do you get the idea the EO don't go as far as the RCC? Orthodoxy holds to the sinlessness of Mary, I don't think any of the EO churches teach otherwise.
Ephesus 431 was answering some questions about Christ's nature, somewhat indirectly. The council determined it was inappropriate to deny the title of Theotokos to Mary. Nestorius preferred the title Christotokos and had some limited reservations about the title Theotokos. The council didn't name her that, it upheld that it was heretical to deny her that title, which was already in use.
They weren't addressing Christ's nature?--through the centuries, through these councils, extending the conversation from Christ's nature to Mary's part in forming or not forming that nature (as well as discussing which natures)? And then naming Mary in accordance with the stance they held?
And then--later, as Catholicism took the conversation, though not Orthodoxy--extending from Christ's nature to Mary's part in Christ's nature to even Mary's nature?
Yes. (Examples are above / in parallel forks. Catholics referring to the CCC, quoting about Mary's "sinless" nature.)
This is how it came to be that we have Catholicism saying Mary was sinless--with Orthodoxy not going that full extent.
The reason you and I are not having the same conversation is that your goal is--what exactly? Where are you addressing a point I've pressed? I'm not arguing against the idea Mary gave birth to Him. I'm not arguing against the truth that it was through Mary that God came in the flesh as a man, born by the flesh of a human mother. My OP is about the overemphasis on asking Mary to intercede and from where that stems. (For some, in the conversation above, the emphasis is due to their stance that Mary was without sin or preserved from temptation.)
For the Orthodox, some would argue that it's her role as His mother and/or (depending on the particular Orthodox branch) her role as the one who bore Him. And this still does not address the comparative overemphasis (over examples of other figures in scripture I presented) on asking Mary specifically to intercede.
Das ist natürlich 1. vor allem aufgrund der (finanziellen) Unterstützung des demokratischen Establishments für Cuomo bemerkenswert, aber lasst uns 2. nicht den gleichen Fehler wie so oft in der Vergangenheit machen und uns mit "DER HAT GANZ TOLLE SOCIAL MEDIA ARBEIT GEMACHT" die Analyse beenden. RE: bsky.app/profile/did:plc:5u54z…
Denn JA, der hat ganz tolle Social Media Arbeit gemacht, aber das ist eben nicht alles. Denn neben der fabelhaften Mobilisierungskampagne sind es auch sein Charisma, seine Vision und seine Inhalte, die Menschen gewählt haben. Und das zeigt: Linke Positionen sind potentiell mehrheitsfähig.
Dafür müssen sie aber mutig und klar vorgetragen werden, und nicht - wie hierzulande sehr oft üblich - verdruckst, kompliziert und fast entschuldigend. Cuomo hat, neben zahlreichen Skandalen, niemanden begeistert. Mamdani hat das geschafft.
Mamdani kam so bold mit seinen Ideen um die Ecke, dass freilich das gesamte Parteiestablishment und große Teile der Medien ihn als Gefahr brandmarkten - und an dieser Stelle kommt dann seine fabelhafte Social Media Strategie zum Tragen:
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All of these servers are available if you have a shell account here. You can use them to learn various versions, decide which to install, and as one place you can develop applications for all versions. We install a wide variety of development tools on all of our publicly available servers.
Our servers listen to port 443 in addition to the standard ssh port of 22 to provide a means to connect from behind a firewall that blocks non-web access. You can also utilize Guacamole on our website (login public, password public).
Alma.Eskimo.Com This server is running Alma 8. Alma Linux replaces Scientific Linux after it’s discontinuation. Presently we are running Alma 8 because Alma 9 does not support NIS out of the box although there are ways of hacking it in. It is unfortunate that Redhat chose to piss on the infrastructure so many organizations depend upon. This is why we tend to favor Debian derived flavors. None the less as Redhat derived software goes Alma is pretty solid. Anduinos.Eskimo.Com Anduinos is a Debian derived distribution that defaults to a Gnome Desktop themed to look like Windows 10. At present though this Desktop is not working over network connections, instead Mate and Gnome are presently available. I am working on some others. Debian.Eskimo.Com Debian Bullseye has a rich assortment of software installed, including hundreds of Games, a huge variety of Office Productivity software, many Educational and Scientific applications, a variety of Integrated Development Environments, and many programming languages. All of the documentation available online these applications is also loaded. Fedora.Eskimo.Com Fedora Rawhide can be accessed graphically using x2go and the Mate desktop. It has the most applications of any of the Redhat derived servers. I install just about everything I can get to work on this machine so it has a huge variety of applications installed. Kali.Eskimo.Com Kali is a special purpose shell server designed for penetration testing. It is primarily here to test our own internal security, and as a result, egress is extremely limited, however upon request, proof of IP space ownership, and permission of the owner and agreement to hold us harmless because it is possible some of these tests may be destructive, we will allow outbound for testing of other sites. Manjaro.Eskimo.Com Manjaro is a good choice for a Linux user who wants to just install and go. There is a pleasant user interface and a good choice of software in the Manjaro repositories. It is a less technical Linux than Ubuntu, you can do most things through graphical interfaces and the default xfce interface is extremely light in terms of memory footprint. Like most modern distros, a variety of Windows systems are available and we have Gnome, Mate, KDE, Xfce, LXDE, and LXQT installed. Mint.Eskimo.Com Mint is another recent addition to our shell servers. It is running Mint, although we have the Mate Desktop installed for graphical access. This is necessary because Unity and other compositing Desktops are incompatible with x2go and really work very roughly with VNC. If you like games, this is a good server to use and there are many installed. Mint is a derivative of Ubuntu which in turn is derived from Debian and this server thus follows the structure and layout of Debian and Ubuntu. MxLinux.Eskimo.Com MxLinux is an excellent choice for a computer with limited resources. Before the overhead of a Desktop is considered, MxLinux uses 200MB less RAM out of the box than does Ubuntu. If you’re not a fan of Poettering and Systemd, you’ll like this OS as it still uses a System-V init with Systemd shims to allow packages requiring systemd to function. You can also run systemd and in fact I am doing so because it boots faster. The default Desktop is LXDE which is also small and efficient. But if you like eye candy you can install any Desktop you like and as with other servers I will install all that I can get to work on this OS. PopOS.Eskimo.Com popOS is a modern appearing OS based upon Ubuntu, and not just indirectly, it actually utilizes Ubuntu’s repositories in addition to it’s own. The Desktops presently available on it are Gnome and Mate, though Gnome is a special edition known as Sparkle, and it does not operate properly with X2go. Presently X2go and ssh are the only two access methods. I am working on the others. Rocky8.Eskimo.Com Rocky8 is a RedHat derived operating system very similar to Centos before Centos was absorbed, and ruined, by Redhat. While Centos support, with the exception of Centos9 is going away on June 30th, 2024, and CentOS9 is not usable because of the deletion of NIS by RedRat which is necessary to our organization, Rocky8 will be supported for security updates through May of 2029, thus provides us a means of continuing to offer a Redhat based environment for another five years.
Ubuntu.Eskimo.Com Ubuntu can be accessed graphically using x2go and the Mate Desktop. The native Unity desktop is a compositing desktop which is incompatible with x2go. This machine is equipped with many applications including a huge number of games, a rich assortment of development tools and computer programming languages, a huge assortment of Office productivity software, many scientific, electronic, and educational tools. Zorin.Eskimo.Com Zorin is a Ubuntu derived operating system. It combines the eye candy of some other Ubuntu flavors such as Mint, with the security awareness and up to date nature of Ubuntu providing a really superb server environment. This machine is our best equipped server. It has the full Ubuntu Studio Suite, a very large assortment of development tools, language packs for all supported languages, many games, both Libre and Caligra Office Suites, and much more. X2go is supported on this machine.
Crontab access, batch, and background jobs are allowed on all of our servers. Most have unrestricted outbound access with the exception of kali owing to high abuse potential for tools that exist on it.
Antiwar News with Dave DeCamp, 06/25/25: Iran Truce Holds After Trump Tells Israel To Stop, IDF Kills 44 in Gaza Aid Massacres, and More youtube.com/watch?v=27jo4wsOPa…
Contact the White House: https://whitehouse.gov/contact/Support the show: Antiwar.com/donatePhone bank for Defend the Guard: https://defendtheguard.us/phoneb...
In 1938, five years into Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s “New Deal,” the US remained mired in the depths of a “Great Depression.” Real income still hadn’t regained its 1929 level. Unemployment stood at six times at level.
project in building a #LinuxMobile first user environment for everyone. You find us at ev.phosh.mobi
and CSB 
voters to come together in solidarity with the SRK voters and but this obnoxious faggot into the finals!
![French far-right urges MPs to quit Facebook groups spreading hate speech
“Animals, nothing human about them,” said a message in an official support group for Jordan Bardella, describing Parisians celebrating after a major football match last month.
A photo of the fascist
RN president and MEP Jordan Bardella [EPA-EFE/SADAK souicl]](https://friendica.eskimo.com/photo/preview/640/7785514 "French far-right urges MPs to quit Facebook groups spreading hate speech
“Animals, nothing human about them,” said a message in an official support group for Jordan Bardella, describing Parisians celebrating after a major football match last month.
A photo of the fascist
RN president and MEP Jordan Bardella [EPA-EFE/SADAK souicl]")
monarchist
in reply to Rose • • •Was a crazy jihadist running the USA?
Democracy keeps getting funnier and sadder all the time.
Rose
in reply to monarchist • • •