newsweek.com/amazon-recalls-pr…
Amazon recall nationwide: Customers told "immediately" stop using products
The recalled products sold on Amazon's website included mattresses, medical devices and children's furniture.Chloe Mayer (Newsweek)
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🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖
in reply to 3dcadmin • • •Bluesky blew itself up cos they failed to be sufficiently decentralised and became an echo chamber. Activpub systems are less echo chambery but still have a very strong left lean that is significantly effecting out ability to grow especially among the centre who represents the majority. We need more right wing opinions and allow said right wing opinions if we want the majority of people to adopt it.
The fundamental failure of the fediverse that is limiting us is that accounts are not transportable. We need some decentralised ledger of accounts that can be cryptographically verified with a zero trust system. U just set up a oidc server to do that auth and that plugs into every single fediverse application everywhere.
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rglullis
in reply to 🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖 • • •🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖
in reply to rglullis • • •Oidc is the protocol by which auth can happen its the evolution of oauth. U need to build some kind of decentralised ledger then u set up a server that checks that ledger against the user provided auth then u simply make this server have an oidc endpoint allowing it to be plug and play with existing fediverse services.
I say oidc cos almost all fediverse software is already compatible with it.
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rglullis
in reply to 🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖 • • •🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖
in reply to rglullis • • •toomanypancakes doesn't like this.
rglullis
in reply to 🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖 • • •It looks like we are talking past one-another.
What I am trying to say is that "getting the user to complete a login" is not the novel part that is missing. What we are missing is a way for the user to have control over their actor ID, so that they use the same id regardless of what server that id is delegated to.
So, unless I am misunderstanding you, what you are proposing is an OIDC provider which could be used to authenticate on any other service. That's good, but it doesn't solve the problem that if we had an unified OIDC provider without a DID, all of the actor ids would end up dependent on the OIDC provider.
🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖
in reply to rglullis • • •Ahh I see what ur saying now. Yeah the actor id is hard as it needs to be an actual dereferenceable uri as actors need an inbox and outbox of activities.
I don't think u can maintain cross instance actor ids. The only issue I see with having multiple actor ids for the same user is that they will have their content and profile split across multiple instances.
I guess u could have a meta id that dereferences to all ur actor ids?
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rglullis
in reply to 🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖 • • •Yes, that would be ATProto's did:plc system.
did:plc Directory
web.plc.directory🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖 likes this.
🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖
in reply to rglullis • • •toomanypancakes doesn't like this.
rglullis
in reply to 🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖 • • •OrbitDB - Home
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in reply to rglullis • • •toomanypancakes doesn't like this.
rglullis
in reply to 🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖 • • •activitypub-client
Codeberg.org🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖 likes this.
Cris
in reply to 🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖 • • •like this
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🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖
in reply to Cris • • •don't like this
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Cris
in reply to 🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖 • • •🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖 likes this.
deur
in reply to 🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖 • • •like this
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r00ty
in reply to deur • • •like this
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🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖
in reply to deur • • •Go say something against trans and see how the fediverse reacts most instances will hand out an instant instance ban. That's a pretty mainstream right wing belief but its almost completely censored on the fediverse.
Normal centrist European views huh? I don't think so their are a lot of right ringers Europe who wouldn't be allowed to say what they want here. Perhaps that's what some Americans mean when they say leftist but that's not what most people mean pretty shit straw man imo.
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aasatru
in reply to 🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖 • • •Hate speech has no place here, no matter how comfortable these creeps feel around their fascist politicians and policemen at home.
Hating Jews was "pretty mainstream" in the NSDAP.
Hate speech is hate speech no matter how many bootlicking pieces of shit might agree, and this is not a platform that's friendly to the miserable fuckers who have nothing better to do with their lives than to spread hate and intolerance. They have Twitter and Truth social to spread their shit.
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🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖
in reply to aasatru • • •And here lies my point. A vast majority of people don't think its hate speech. And a vast majority of people believe free speech supersedes hate speech.
Please define hate speech.
I've seen many people defending violence against Jews in the name of Palestine right here on lemmy so I'd say hating Jews is pretty mainstream in the fediverse right now.
I believe the right to free speech grants you the right to express hatred as long as ur not calling for violence u should have the right to say whatever the fuck you want.
That's a pretty mainstream belief for a lot a people who have been completely ostracised and discriminated against by the fediverse as a whole.
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aasatru
in reply to 🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖 • • •The definition of UN should be simple enough:
A related reading would be the paradox of tolerance, which goes far in explaining why we do not want this shit anywhere near our communities.
As for anti-Semitism, I've seen some of it in response to Israel's ongoing genocide, and of course the current context makes both anti-Semitism and anti-Muslim sentiments a very real problem. However, I think people on here mostly seem to be able to distinguish Israel and Judaism, and when they don't it seems moderators are generally doing a better job than on most platforms in my experience. But I doubt you're here in good faith, so I don't see much point in discussing something like this with you.
If you feel discriminated against because people don't want you around, feel free to vote with your feet.
logical paradox in decision-making theory
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🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖
in reply to aasatru • • •First I always discuss in good faith its a far more rewarding and enjoyable way to engage with the shared human experience. Second the condescending attitude isn't particularly pleasant I'm not speaking with you in such a way I ask you have the same respect for me.
Sure that's a fair definition.
I would argue the paradox of tolerance is widely misunderstood the full quote in which it is based is as follows:
"Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.
In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise." - Karl Popper (The Open Society and Its Enemies 1945)
I think most people ignore the second half of it as its convenient for them to do so.
Ahh yes vote with my feet and leave the fediverse hence why op is asking why the fediverse has stagnated and doesn't seem to be growing. You have expertly just proven exactly the original point I was trying to make.
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ProdigalFrog
in reply to 🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖 • • •Muntedcrocodile: "I believe in the right to spread hatred as long as it's not calling for violence."
Lemmy: "Um, okay. Let's give that a try. We hate hateful right wing views, and call people with those views total assholes."
muntedcrocodile: "Wait, not like that! You should tolerate us so there's a diversity of views!"
Ironic.
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🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖
in reply to ProdigalFrog • • •Nice straw man.
U see I also believe in equality (of opportunity) if you have the right to spread hate against right wing views then said right wingers should have said right to spread hate against your views.
I'm tolerant of your hate speech and combat it with ration argument. Your not tolerant of my speech and combat it with deletions, bans, and personal attacks. We are not the same.
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toomanypancakes
in reply to 🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖 • • •Actually, a vast majority of people don't support being a shitbag to other people. You're confusing popular sentiment with the whims of the conservative elite. If you don't just hide in right wing echo chambers all the time you might be surprised to find out how unpopular your terrible views are.
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🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖
in reply to toomanypancakes • • •I frequent many forums both digital and physical under a multitude of identities and the only ones who despise free speech are the extreme left. Pretty much everyone likes it. Lemmy is the most echo chambery of all the places I visit.
If your views are so popular how did trump win the election? Why have almost all right wing parties across Europe gotten a larger percentage of the vote? Why did almost every state in the us shift more right in the last election? These are the facts. You are objectively wrong
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toomanypancakes
in reply to 🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖 • • •like this
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🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖
in reply to toomanypancakes • • •toomanypancakes doesn't like this.
toomanypancakes
in reply to 🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖 • • •I've provided more facts to support my claim than you have for yours. I've provided nothing, whereas you have actively lied about the nothing you've brought forth. I don't need to prove anything to you.
Not that I could, conservatives don't think anyway, and you can't logic someone out of a position they felt their way into.
🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖
in reply to toomanypancakes • • •Alright I'll bite: yonkersobserver.com/early-resu…
Proof almost all the us moved right in the last election.
statista.com/chart/6852/seats-…
Proof of my Europe claim.
Here's the important charts for ya

Prove me wrong
Early Results Show a Red Shift Across the U.S. | Yonkers Observer
Yonkers Observer Report (Yonkers Observer)toomanypancakes doesn't like this.
toomanypancakes
in reply to 🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖 • • •See, you don't read.
Me: I don't need to prove anything to you.
You: Prove me wrong.
Like, no. You can't even read and parse one paragraph, and you want me to compile a bunch of research you won't understand? You want me to explain the difference between a scant majority of the population who decided to and were permitted to vote and a vast majority of all people everywhere to someone who struggles with basic reading? What a laugh.
🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖
in reply to toomanypancakes • • •Shifting the goalposts.
I made 2 claims u said I was wrong because my claims where wrong I proved my claims where true. Now ur refusing to provide evidence to support your claims. Engage in good faith. Stop being a hypocrite. Have some honour lest I lose what little respect I used to have for u.
toomanypancakes
in reply to 🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖 • • •🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖
in reply to toomanypancakes • • •toomanypancakes doesn't like this.
aasatru
in reply to deur • • •like this
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Die4Ever
in reply to 🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖 • • •I've never felt this was as important as people say, at least here in the Threadiverse I don't see it being important. Can you explain how this would help Lemmy/PieFed?
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🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖
in reply to Die4Ever • • •don't like this
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Die4Ever
in reply to 🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖 • • •Ensign_Crab likes this.
🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖
in reply to Die4Ever • • •don't like this
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Die4Ever
in reply to 🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖 • • •So people still have to choose an instance to login to? This is just to save you from creating an account which is like 25 keystrokes and 4 clicks?
I also don't really want to make things easier for people who get banned often, sounds like it would be easier for trolls to bounce between hundreds of instances with fewer accounts.
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🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖
in reply to Die4Ever • • •don't like this
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Cris
in reply to 🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖 • • •A lot of right-wing beliefs have become so extreme that I am frankly happy to not be around them, regardless of how important I feel it is to avoid echo chambers (very). Its one thing to want to be able to have conversations with people you disagree with even though it's challenging, it's another thing to constantly have to contend with people who would like to debate whether you're a human and deserve basic human dignity because you're a minority.
But I would appreciate if we could at least manage not to attack other left wing folks over not being left wing enough, or over what methods are a productive way to solve the problems we're facing.
It's kind of just a microcosm of the infighting and purity testing of the left more broadly (at least in America, I have no idea how things are with the culture of leftwing communities or voices in Europe or the rest of the world), but it still sucks and I'd like to hope we can find a way to do better.
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🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖
in reply to Cris • • •Tbh I'm not even sure what the right and left wing means or believes anymore.
Both terms have been so utterly corrupted and coopted that they have become meaningless to the point of simply being a term used to other one group by the other.
Well that's the problem everyone thinks they are exactly the minimum amount of left and that anyone right of them is a facist. If someone is continuously called a fascist Nazi eventually they will listen.
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it" - Joseph Goebbels
Australia wasn't so much on the extreme of Americans but we are getting there. Interestingly both the right wing and the extreme left got fucked in our most recent election. Mind u I'm not happy with the current federal government they are introducing a pre capital gains tax on everyone's savings.
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don't like this
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Cris
in reply to 🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖 • • •I can appreciate how twisted and emotionally charged the labels have become. As a queer(-ish, it's complicated) person in the US, it is not uncommon for right wing spaces on reddit to offhandedly describe me and all the people I care about as groomers. Thats not a good faith discussion of whether the way that I want to see problems solved is productive, it's just dehumanizing people because they're minorities.
I don't want to be around that. I think it is extremely important to have conversations with people you don't agree with, and I still have very little emotional capacity to engage with people that far away from me in terms of what's considered an acceptable way to engage with other humans.
I don't wish them death and dismemberment or for them to face violent retribution (and before people take issue with that, that would radicalize people and harm every single cause I care about, making every problem I'm facing worse. Even just purely pragmatically that's a horrible way to solve our problems like 99% of the time), but I don't wish to share space with them, I don't have that in me.
The left does absolutely have an issue with calling anyone we dont like a Nazi, which is a painful problem to confront due to the fact that our government is descending into outright fascism, and it is now infinitely harder to have a conversation about the fact that this is what fascism looks like now that the word has been so diluted as to be almost meaningless. It essentially just conveys "I really really really don't like that person" at this point, which is a big difference from "this person is framing minorities as responsible for all that ails society to gain power while stripping us of our freedoms and amassing personal power and currying favor with billionaires by selling them our institutions at all or our expense"
I'm curious, how did both the left and right get fucked in the recent election? I'm pretty much entirely unfamiliar with Australian politics save for a couple friendly jordies videos
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🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖
in reply to Cris • • •The issue is the worst of both sides are the ones defining each other. I won't deny that I disagree with some of the things being pushed as part of education for young children. But I wouldn't say that that's grooming let alone define an entire group of people by that. Its defiantly not good faith.
I think the beautiful part of the internet is if u don't want to be around a particular person u can block them and they simply disappear. They have a right to speech but nobody has the right to force you to listen.
I don't think engaging with people emotionally is the correct way to engage especially over a text medium. I think the only real productive discussion that can be had without devolving into a screaming and name calling is rational and logical. I find that emotional arguments and weaponised empathy get deployed on mass instead of rational discussion.
I'm not saying that you should be forced to share a space with such people I simply think that others should not be restricted from having such spaces and engaging freely with people in those spaces.
This is what I'm saying people have been called fascist so long they have become the fascists. Its both sides stripping us of our freedoms and making our lives shit. Its a choice between get fucked or get fucked lite. We are all to distracted fighting a bullshit culture war to realise its just a distraction from the real issues. Funny how the whole culture war thing kicked off just after occupy wall street.
In Australia we have preferential voting so we don't have a 2 party system. We have the liberals who are centre right, we have labor who are centre left, we have the greens who are communists and we have the nationals who are fascists. The nationals never get any seats, liberal and labor trade places as the government every couple years and the greens get a couple seats. This time the greens lost almost all their seats same as the liberals.
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rglullis
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Sentient Loom
in reply to rglullis • • •like this
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rglullis
in reply to Sentient Loom • • •Yeap, 100%. The extremists and the terminally online are overrepresented here, and that keeps the masses away.
I'd suggest though to not waste your time arguing with the self-righteous idiots and just focus on bringing more normie-friendly content.
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Cris
in reply to Sentient Loom • • •Yeah we do have a lot of people who feel it's more important to demonstrate their anger than to figure out what people could do to improve the problems.
Worse still, a lot of people seem to have convinced themselves that whatever makes it most clear they're angry and hurts the people they disagree with the most is actually what's most productive. The anger about the state of things, particularly in the US is entirely valid. The self-justification of behaviours that burn bridges and radicalize more people is not.
If you want to implement any kind of solution you do, necessarily have to have a critical mass of people who agree with you, and you cannot build that by antagonizing anyone who doesn't already share your exact flavour of left wing ideology, and acting in a way that reflects poorly on your ideology to everyone except people who already agree with you
Very rarely is anyone willing to confront that violence as a means to an end, pragmatically, has enormous costs, and that employing it just because you're (justifiably) angry, is almost always detrimental to the exact abouts you're mad about
(Sorry, I know I kinda went off track from exactly what you were talking about, this is just a closely related huge frustration of mine)
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Sentient Loom
in reply to Cris • • •The people I'm talking about (the worst ones) don't even have an "end." No plan at all. The violence is the end. It's pure stupidity. I see it as the lust for violence, coming up with some politics to justify itself.
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Cris
in reply to Sentient Loom • • •I agree. Its very frustrating, as someone who cares deeply about trying to do anything I can to find a future for myself in the increasingly broken status quo the US is devolving into (and has been in for a long time, albiet to a lesser extreme)
But don't you worry, they'll tell themselves the whole while that they're the righteous one for advocating wanton violence. I want off this ride 🙁
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I_Snort_Butterflies
in reply to Sentient Loom • • •soooo much! Not only is this becoming an "advocate violence" platform, people are getting pissed if they have a post removed for advocating violence. Lemmy will def end up in the news after some crazy shoots up people and they find out he was all over Lemmy being cheered on to shoot billionaires or something.
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Endmaker
in reply to rglullis • • •Blaze (he/him)
in reply to Endmaker • • •like this
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rglullis
in reply to Endmaker • • •Who is going to pay for those ads? With what money? There is no single entity here with enough interest in growing the Fediverse, and any grassroots movements that we do have are strictly against commerce.
The Lemmy devs would be making more money if they went to work for Uber Eats than as software developers, and I barely manage to convince people to pay $2.50/month to offer a professional hosting service.
We don't really need to "buy ads" to grow. We just need to get more people willing to invest in it.
Communick: social media and messaging hosting that respects you and your privacy
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3dcadmin
in reply to rglullis • • •like this
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Em-Squared
in reply to 3dcadmin • • •db0
in reply to rglullis • • •like this
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rglullis
in reply to db0 • • •Yet, Bluesky has grown to 35M+ active accounts, even though they started way after us
This is not an "advantage". This is an excuse we tell ourselves to cope with our failures.
And when it does, the majority of people will go the next shiny "free as in beer", VC-funded siloed platform and we are going to be just another "They don't know" meme.
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db0
in reply to rglullis • • •like this
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rglullis
in reply to db0 • • •The "most others" here is a heavily self-selected group of people who don't want to compromise on any of their values and treat any effort to grow as a threat.
All of this to say, it's fine if you say "Yes, we are small and I want it that way because if it gets any bigger we will be surrounded by people who do not uphold the same values we do". The problem is that you're arguing "We are only small because of $random_reason (network effects/evil capitalists/not enough funding/etc)", as if "being small" was determined by external factors and not something that you can control.
That's the point of disagreement. I think we can control this and we can bring more people here, but it's just that you don't want to do it if means sacrificing your ideology.
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aasatru
in reply to rglullis • • •Of course I don't want to compromise my values in order to see growth of a platform that I use precisely because it aligns with my values.
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rglullis
in reply to aasatru • • •When I say "compromise", I am not saying "sacrifice them completely". I am talking about in terms of Big Fedi vs Small Fedi, regardless on where on the scale you want to stay, there are trade-offs to be made.
Evan Prodromou
2023-12-27 02:12:40
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ikt
in reply to rglullis • • •As explained by the user below
Communities growing in size is for capitalist pig dogs!
We here at the communist-iverse prefer to die slowly with brief spurts of new users when a more popular platform makes changes before they leave again
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Cris
in reply to rglullis • • •I mean everyone already has platforms they're largely comfortable with and fediverse platforms are less accessible, smaller, and usually clones of existing formats. The primary place we compete is on not being total dogshit, so when people can forget that their comfortable platforms are dogshit, it doesn't surprise me that people wouldn't be going out of their way to venture out into a new unfamiliar thing, with a different culture and much smaller userbase 🤷♂️
I'm happy to be here regardless of whether we're growing personally. In spite of Lemmy's challenges I enjoy it here, and that's enough for me.
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Blaze (he/him)
in reply to Cris • • •like this
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Cris
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •like this
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in reply to Cris • • •like this
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Cris
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •Blaze (he/him) likes this.
rglullis
in reply to Cris • • •I think this is a fine attitude if you are an user who just wants to enjoy a "slow web" kind of experience, but as someone aware of all the ill effects of Big Tech and Surveillance Capitalism, I wish we were more ambituous and aimed for a bigger slice of user share.
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Cris
in reply to rglullis • • •I am broadly in favor of growing the Fediverse, but I am also of the belief that most of the ways that people think that should be done, are potentially more counter productive than productive
For users, most people think of growing Lemmy as evangelizing. Personally I think that's almost always experienced as preachy and antagonistic. The real work of making the fediverse competive is the developers maintainers and hosters, and if we as users want the fediverse to grow I think the biggest thing we can do is be a part of making this a good place to be.
Its by creating a culture that when people show up and try things out on a whim, they decide to stay. It certainly helps for people to hear about the Fediverse, but if that's a accomplished through means that make people frustrated and hostile towards us, I think we've accomplished more harm than good.
I deeply miss the thriving small niche communities of reddit, and us not being able to sustain that is 100% down to not having enough users, but I see participating in a way that makes it worth being here as the biggest thing I can do to support the fediverse
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rglullis
in reply to Cris • • •My biggest frustration is that I sincerely believe that I had built like 80% of the tools needed to solve the onboarding issues:
These things are all right there. There was no single admin interested in implementing it. Everyone was just looking at their own few thousand users and never got together to think "how can we get from 50k to 5 million?"
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Cris
in reply to rglullis • • •I can certainly see why that would be frustrating. I'm surprised I'd not heard of your project before- does it have a name or a github? If it does and I see folks talking about how we can improve onboarding or grow the fediverse it'd be nice to be able to mention it to them
I think I'm subbed to fedibridge- have you posted about it there? I feel like admins may be kinda swamped and it might need traction with users who want to see things grow in order to cut through the noise and have it be a significant enough priority for any admins. There may also be an issue of them knowing that making onboarding from reddit significantly easier, if successful might mean putting a lot more strain on themselves and their instance
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rglullis
in reply to Cris • • •It's Fediverser. Yes, it is on github. Yes, I've posted about it, quite a bit.
I asked prolific users to join, I offered help to admins to set it up. I even offered the topic-specific instances to the wider community. None of these efforts were well received.
GitHub - mushroomlabs/fediverser: A set of utilities to help bring content and users from legacy social media networks into the fediverse
GitHublike this
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AbnormalHumanBeing
in reply to Cris • • •That has been my impression of present dynamics and historical data, too - boom-bust-cycles of either some other platform fucking up or there being curiosity from some synergetic effect, then the initial wave breaking over time - but usually also leaving behind at least more (genuinely active) users than before the wave. For Lemmy, one can definitely see some reduction in activity, I think - not dramatically, but I do think it's noticeable if you spend a lot of time here. E.g. unlike during the last Exodus, I see more of "the same users" than before. There's still enough content, it does not feel dead by a long shot, and who knows when the next wave may hit.
That wave-like character makes it hard to estimate organic growth too, at times. The mass influx of users dying off over weeks will give shrinking numbers there, even if some users from organic growth who are more likely to stay and be active than "mass exodus users" may still join there. Also, users moving in between MBin/PieFed/Lemmy will fudge numbers, but they are essentially in the same ecosystem.
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Cris
in reply to AbnormalHumanBeing • • •like this
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in reply to rglullis • • •like this
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rglullis
in reply to Coelacanth • • •Fediverser
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Blaze (he/him)
in reply to Coelacanth • • •One day...
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SorteKanin
in reply to misk • • •I think rather we'll see more software popping up and diversifying the ecosystem. Then you can pick whichever you prefer. Which is the whole point of the fediverse. I'm currently working on my own implementation. Might take a long while before any alpha version as I'm super busy but I try to do at least a bit of work on it every day.
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Endmaker
in reply to 3dcadmin • • •like this
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in reply to Endmaker • • •like this
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Blaze (he/him)
in reply to 3dcadmin • • •As a general comment, I suggest everyone interested in making the Fediverse grow to join those two communities
- !fedibridge@lemmy.dbzer0.com is about promoting the Threadiverse on other platforms (usually Reddit)
- !fedigrow@lemmy.zip is about growing communities on the platform
Nobody likes to shout into the void. The second one helps finding people to help you grow your communities.
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in reply to majster • • •majster
in reply to AwesomeLowlander • • •AwesomeLowlander
in reply to majster • • •astronaut_sloth
in reply to 3dcadmin • • •Just from a quick look at fediverse.observer/, it looks like the Fediverse is mostly steady at 1-1.25 million monthly users (give or take) over the past two years with a slight decreasing trend. I think there are some reasons for this that are not entirely in our control.
There seems to be a global sentiment of disconnecting from social media and the internet in general. So, I wouldn't be surprised if ever platform is seeing a decaying user base. Anecdotally, among the people I see in real life, there is a general sense of exhaustion with online spaces. Whether it's from corporate-own, enshittified platforms to even places on the Fediverse, the people with whom I interact tend to find the entire thing hollow. They've trimmed down to one or two platforms (if that). In fact, I've even started to get that way. In the past, if someone were wrong and arguing against a point I made, I'd engage, especially if it's in something that I have expertise. Now, why bother? There's no use arguing; people have little interest in admitting fault or engaging in good faith (again anecdotally). That said, I'll concede that the Fediverse is a bit better on that front, but not by much.
Then there's the alternative nature of the Fediverse. It's been rehashed over and over about how "difficult" it is to get on and use. It's not actually that hard, but the barrier to entry is an extra step. That small extra step frightens people away from even joining. The only time that barrier gets broken is when a "legacy" social media platform does something anti-user. Then there is a refugee wave that comes in and goes out leading to a modest durable increase in users. Recently, there just hasn't been a major controversy on a major platform that leads people here.
Now, my final thought on this is to ask: Is a small and steady-ish population (despite modest decay) actually bad? In my view, I don't think it is. Being smaller and with a smallish barrier to entry means that we exclude a sizable number of the low-effort population. So, there's less (no zero) slop here. Plus, discussions, when had in good faith, can be much deeper and less filled with stupid low-effort jokes. Overall, I'm not too concerned with the number of people on the Fediverse. Growth isn't necessarily the best thing. Even so, with the way most mainstream platforms are going, it's inevitable that they will do something stupid that drives more people to the Fediverse at least for a time.
TL;DR: The monthly population is mostly steady with a modest decay. Most social media is likely seeing similar trends. I don't think the smaller userbase is that bad of a thing.
Fediverse Observer checks all sites in the fediverse and gives you an easy way to find a home from a map or list or automatically.
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bitjunkie
in reply to 3dcadmin • • •like this
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Blaze (he/him)
in reply to bitjunkie • • •Block the meta communities
Or use Piefed where you can create different feeds (a la multireddit): join.piefed.social/
PieFed - Open Source Federated Forum
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nocturne
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •They do not want to fix the problem, they want it to fix itself.
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LemUrun
in reply to 3dcadmin • • •Triggering content: People are going back to Reddit.
Come on! I want to see them downvotes!
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in reply to 3dcadmin • • •like this
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Em-Squared
in reply to 3dcadmin • • •Does the fediverse have a future? I think it'll remain its own niche as corporate offerings come and go. Increased Interest may come from an unexpected growth in a specialism that is federated.
I think my idealism for what the fediverse could achieve is now muted as I probably no longer have faith in open networks as the cultures are way too different so I probably now see the fediverse less through the email analogy and more through the linux analogy. If fedi plods on refining itself in its own slow way (volunteers and no money make for slow progress) then who know the next time a corp offering destroys itself and people search for a less awful and exploitative environment then it might just win out in the long term though I'm not entirely convinced about that. Does that mean i'm off to corporate networks. Not really. I'd rather just stop altogether than fall down that rabbit hole again.
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3dcadmin
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in reply to 3dcadmin • • •like this
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3dcadmin
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •tigeruppercut likes this.
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to 3dcadmin • • •2500 monthly active users on !unitedkingdom@feddit.uk
feddit.uk/communities
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3dcadmin
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •Blaze (he/him)
in reply to 3dcadmin • • •What other things? There doesn't seem to be a large UK mastodon instance: mastodon.fediverse.observer/li…
For corporate social media, is there any UK based social media?
Fediverse Observer checks all sites in the fediverse and gives you an easy way to find a home from a map or list or automatically.
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3dcadmin
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •Blaze (he/him)
in reply to 3dcadmin • • •3dcadmin
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •Blaze (he/him)
in reply to 3dcadmin • • •Aren't all of those US focused?
Network effect. !fedibridge@lemmy.dbzer0.com if you want to help spread the word
3dcadmin
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •Blaze (he/him)
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