Challenge: Prove that an Epstein client list exists.
Over the last 4 years that I have been collecting and cataloging news and memes I have saved almost 60K images.
I read every charging document on Ghislaine Maxwell, and I saved every piece of evidence related to the case that I could find.
I have never seen proof that an "Epstein client list" even exists let alone that it would be trustworthy if it did.
Is there anyone that can prove it exists? I seriously doubt it.
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Donald Trump and Prince Andrew have mutually agreed to pretend not to know each other during the US President’s upcoming state visit to the UK. Trump has formally accepted an invitation from King C…NewsThump
The Reform leader needs to be reminded whose idea it was to push hundreds of thousands of children into poverty in the first place, writes Josiah MortimerJosiah Mortimer (Byline Times)
Goodbye, NYC.
David Asman on X:
@DavidAsmanfox
·
2h
And talk about clinging to power…this practically assures that cop-hating, Israel-hating, business-hating socialist Mamdani will be NYC’s next mayor.
Expansion WNBA team brings back the original Portland Fire name
https://apnews.com/article/wnba-portland-fire-expansion-ae020b04b8bc950ca614879e15c6234c?utm_source=flipboard&utm_medium=activitypub
Posted into Sports @sports-AssociatedPress
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Occupied West Bank (Quds News Network)- The Israeli government has revived plans to expand illegal settlements in the sensitive E1 area east of occupied Jerusalem, Haaretz reported Monday. The move thEditing Team (Quds News Network)
Opinion: Mozilla's management is a bug, not a featureLiam Proven (The Register)
WeTransfer just changed their ToS to allow them to train AI on any files you transfer through them.
Don't use there service, especially for work that you don't have the right to relicense to them (e.g., commercial work that's exactly the most likely to create the huge files WeTransfer specializes in).
(ETA: this is already going boom so I'm muting it.)
wetransfer.com/explore/legal/t…
WeTransfer is the simplest way to send your files around the worldWeTransfer - Send Large Files & Share Photos Online - Up to 2GB Free
💙🩷💜Ⓑⓡⓔⓣⓣ🐡🍉🐧 likes this.
So... I printed a pocket sized gas filter cartridge to mouth adapter. It fits and works! Great for all the other times when one doesn't want to carry a full face respirator around everywhere for the occasional less than lethal dog fart.
I found this has already been designed, "3M Filter Adapter for Snorkel Mask (dual or single filter)" and I chose the single filter and printed it, and here is the success. It will need an oring (which can be printed with TPU filament LOL.) The only change I would make is printing it slightly smaller at 98% for a better fit to the cartridge and 100% infill for strength, so just started another print.
And possibly another revision, to print the whole thing in TPU as this is held by the mouth and teeth 😁
like this
Reform UK’s oil industry interests are a major turn-off for voters, new research reveals. The think tank Persuasion UK tested five anti-Reform messages on 6,000 adults.Sam Bright (DeSmog)
Ceci n'est pas une baguette : c'est un sac Moschino
cqfd-journal.org/Ceci-n-est-pa…
"Supermarché Chanel, burgers géants signés Moschino, orgies néo-baroques chez Gucci… Le luxe s'empare de la nourriture pour en faire une démonstration d'abondance, une esthétique de la satiété qui oublie volontiers la faim des autres. « En dehors de son talent de couturier, Christian Dior fut un gourmet passionné, à la recherche des recettes les plus subtiles et les plus raffinées.
UNITED NATIONS, July 14 (YPA) - The UN Security Council on Monday unanimously voted to extend the mandate of the United Nations Mission to Support the Hodeida Agreement (UNMHA) for an additional six and a half months.The UK drafted the resolution onعماد (Yemen Press Agency)
a good movie about a type of person polticians and corporates hire a lot
youtube.com/watch?v=GtJiuClf8u…
The Killer Man 2 - Hollywood English Movie | Blockbuster Michael Fassbender Action Full Movies In English killer man,michael fassbender,hollywood action mo...YouTube
« Les empires s'épuisent avant les peuples »
cqfd-journal.org/Les-empires-s…
"Dans son dernier livre, La guerre globale contre les peuples – Mécanique impériale de l'ordre sécuritaire (La Fabrique, 2025) Mathieu Rigouste, chercheur en sciences sociales et militant, nous embarque dans une histoire moderne de la contre-insurrection. Face aux régimes et leurs innovations sécuritaires, les peuples, qui savent ce qu'ils veulent, gagnent du terrain. Entretien. Depuis 20
Dans son dernier livre, La guerre globale contre les peuples – Mécanique impériale de l’ordre sécuritaire (La Fabrique, 2025) Mathieu Rigouste, (…)CQFD, mensuel de critique et d'expérimentation sociales
"If you learn everything except Christ, you learn nothing. If you learn nothing except Christ, you learn everything."
— St. Bonaventure
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I really appreciate The Nation as a publication. Their latest issue has analysis by a writer from 50 states, honing in on one issue in each state.
In this piece on Arizona, the writer looks at how our media environment creates a self -destructive performativity incompatible with a healthy democracy.
"In the run-up to the Civil War, congressmen of all persuasions paid close attention to how they were covered in the press."
thenation.com/article/society/…
The country and the nation: Fifty writers and artists report on the states of our dis-union.The Nation
Hope can be a tricky thing.
We should all hold out hope that things will improve, that despite how bleak it may look, things have a way of getting better, or if they don’t that we ourselves can improve and be changed by circumstance into something more than we believed we could be.
However placing your hope IN some government, some country, some politician, some ideology or some policy is foolish.
We must all learn to draw this distinction, and stay on the right side of the line.
Well said.
There are those who look at 'saviors' in our politicans. Biden or Que Mala will save our democracy!
When Trump won, these same people claimed Trump supporters were a cult. Who knows, some may be.
However, intelligent people realized Trump had many good statements and was better than any alternative available.
Of course we are disappointed. We did not expect the yellow brick road.
However, we need to defend against the cultists who worship big gubmint sans Trump.
Native American teens kayak major US river to celebrate removal of dams and return of salmon
https://apnews.com/article/native-american-klamath-river-dams-kayak-a25d8289473942e503b451581415a006?utm_source=flipboard&utm_medium=activitypub
Posted into U.S. News @u-s-news-AssociatedPress
Πρώην Ειδικός Εισηγητής του ΟΗΕ Δηλώνει ότι η Φραντσέσκα Αλμπανέζε Αξίζει το Βραβείο Νόμπελ, Όχι τις Κυρώσεις των ΗΠΑ (Μάρτζορι Κον)
Η Ειδική Εισηγήτρια του ΟΗΕ για την Κατεχόμενη Παλαιστίνη, Φραντσέσκα Αλμπανέζε, μιλά κατά τη διάρκεια εκδήλωσης με τίτλο «Σταματήστε τη Γενοκτονία, Ελεύθερη Παλαιστίνη» στη Μαδρίτη της Ισπανίας, στις 23 Ιουνίου 2025. Πρώην Ειδικός Εισηγητής του ΟΗΕ Δηλώνει ότι η Φραντσέσκα Αλμπανέζε Αξίζει το Βραβείο Νόμπελ, Όχι τις Κυρώσεις των ΗΠΑ Οι…
rotenotes.wordpress.com/2025/0…
Η Ειδική Εισηγήτρια του ΟΗΕ για την Κατεχόμενη Παλαιστίνη, Φραντσέσκα Αλμπανέζε, μιλά κατά τη διάρκεια εκδήλωσης με τίτλο «Σταματήστε τη Γενοκτονία, Ελεύθερη Παλαιστίνη» στη Μαδρίτη της Ισπανίας, σ…rotenotes
NYC subway service operational but some roads in NY and NJ remain closed after heavy rains
https://apnews.com/article/new-york-city-new-jersey-flooding-f55d98547abc20e94dbb6be16a7f72cd?utm_source=flipboard&utm_medium=activitypub
Posted into U.S. News @u-s-news-AssociatedPress
Italian tennis star Jannik Sinner has reinforced his position at the top of the ATP world rankings, released today, Monday, following his first-ever Wimbledon championship victory—the third Grand Slam tournament of the year.www.saba.ye
"α δεν κρατάω SMS πιάνουν χώρο"
ΤΑ 2 ΚΒ ΣΕ ΠΕΙΡΑΞΑΝ ΟΧΙ ΤΑ 80 ΤΕΡΑΜΠΑΙΤ ΗΜΙΣΚΛΗΡΗΣ ΤΣΟΝΤΑΣ ΠΟΥ ΕΧΕΙΣ ΚΑΤΕΒΆΣΕΙ ΑΠΟ ΤΟ ΤΙΚΤΟΚ ΚΑΙ ΤΟ ΙΝΣΤΑ ΓΑΜΩ ΤΟ ΣΠΙΤΙ ΨΑΧΝΟΥΜΕ ΤΩΡΑ ΤΟΝ ΑΡΙΘΜΟ ΠΕΝΤΑΚΟΣΙΕΣ ΩΡΕΣ ΣΙΧΑΜΕΝΕ
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Started playing Diablo IV since it's free on Playstation+ and see how Elon is allegedly so good.
1) We all know he has someone build up his character.
2) He plays the Barbarian and all you literally need to do is hold down the attack button and, if your character is built up enough/has the right enhancements, you basically can't be touched.
Nearly 7,000 Afghan nationals are being urgently relocated to the UK following the revelation of a catastrophic data breach under the previous Conservative government – a blunder so severe that ministers attempted to suppress it with a secretive supe…Dorset Eye (Dorset Eye Ltd)
DEAR FRIENDS. IF YOU LIKE THIS TYPE OF CONTENT, SUPPORT SOUTHFRONT WORK: MONERO (XMR): 86yfEHs6pkoDEKCxc6MAnQX8cVHmzhYxMVrNuwKgNmqpWK8dDxjgGnK8PtUNJMA...Anonymous765 (South Front)
Stop this madness. It is pure evil
thecanary.co/global/world-anal…
The Gaza Strip is facing catastrophic humanitarian conditions with the threat of famine worsening, amid the continuing Israeli genocideAlaa Shamali (The Canary)
A Mail on Sunday article criticising local councils for "handing out gift cards and fun days" to asylum seekers has been perfectly debunked.Charlie Herbert (The London Economic)
So after repairing my bike I went for a ride on Sunday. I took video showing that I would've arrived home with my gloves. Haven't seen them since.
It's driving me nuts. I've looked everywhere.
:hoshino_zzz: likes this.
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TEHRAN - Since the outbreak of the Gaza war in October 2023, the Israeli military has been grappling with a surge in suicides among soldiers.Tehran Times
CONTRO LO SFRATTO DEL LEO
Nuova mattinata di mobilitazione contro lo sfratto del Leoncavallo. La nuova data di arrivo dell'ufficiale giudiziario è il 9 settembre.
> uncover more crimes which will keep him tied up for years (hopefully in prison)
That sounds nice, but when was the last time they did that to anyone in a position of power on the left?
L’IA, un nouvel internet… sans condition
#IA #société #internet #GAFAM #dictature #manipulation #contrôleL’idée finalement très partagée par tous les géants de l’IA, c’est bien d’annoncer le remplacement du web que l’on connaît par un autre. Une sous-couche générative qu’il maîtriseraient, capable de produire un web à leur profit, qu’ils auraient avalé et digéré.
Les gens n'accéderont plus qu'à de l'information générée par les IA des GAFAM. totalement manipulés.hubtr.bonjour.cafeia.org/mirro…
Emmanuel Florac likes this.
“un vélo qui peut aller sur l’autoroute”
je me demandais combien de temps tiendrait la notion de “VéLI” (Véhicule léger intermédiaires) pour pas être rattrapée par le délire SUV, et ben ça n'aura pas traîné
Syria announces ceasefire after sectarian violence
https://apnews.com/article/syria-druze-clashes-sweida-44585d1d58ddcdd224e9573ca94767b0?utm_source=flipboard&utm_medium=activitypub
Posted into International News @international-news-AssociatedPress
Le président Donald Trump a annoncé lundi que les États-Unis vendraient des milliards de dollars d'équipements militaires aux alliés de l'OTAN, qui en transféreraient ensuite une grande partie à l'Ukraine dans le cadre des efforts visant à soutenir la défense de Kiev contre la Russie.
Le président n'a pas fourni de détails supplémentaires sur cet accord, qui marque sa première approbation de transferts d'armes offensives vers l'Ukraine depuis son retour au pouvoir. Cependant, lorsqu'on lui a demandé si le paquet comprenait des batteries de défense aérienne Patriot et des missiles intercepteurs , il a répondu : "C'est tout."
Une source proche du projet a déclaré à Axios que les États-Unis vendraient pour environ 10 milliards de dollars d'armes à leurs alliés de l'OTAN au cours de la première phase de l'accord.
Le secrétaire général de l'OTAN, Mark Rutte, a déclaré que l'accord porte sur "des quantités considérables d'équipements militaires", notamment des missiles à longue portée et des munitions. L'Allemagne, la Finlande, le Danemark, la Suède, la Norvège, le Royaume-Uni, les Pays-Bas et le Canada ont manifesté leur intérêt à y participer.
Trump a annoncé l'accord sur les armes peu après avoir donné à la Russie un délai de 50 jours pour accepter un cessez-le-feu. "Nous allons imposer des droits de douane très élevés si nous ne parvenons pas à un accord dans les 50 jours", a déclaré Trump. "Des droits de douane d'environ 100 %, on pourrait les appeler des droits de douane secondaires. Vous savez ce que cela signifie."
Le président ukrainien Volodymyr Zelenskyy a déclaré avoir discuté lundi avec Trump et Rutte des moyens d'améliorer la protection des civils contre les attaques russes et de renforcer les positions défensives de l'Ukraine.
"Nous apprécions la volonté de fournir des Patriots supplémentaires, et les États-Unis, l'Allemagne et la Norvège travaillent déjà ensemble sur ce sujet. D'autres armes seront également livrées pour protéger la vie de nos citoyens et repousser les assauts russes", a écrit Zelenskyy sur X.
Dans un autre message sur X, Zelenskyy a remercié Trump pour sa « volonté de soutenir l'Ukraine ». Il a déclaré qu'ils avaient convenu de se téléphoner plus souvent et de coordonner les prochaines étapes pour mettre fin à la guerre.
Source : sofx.com/trump-unveils-nato-ar…
patreon.com/posts/trump-devoil…
President Donald Trump announced Monday that the United States will sell billions of dollars worth of military equipment to NATO allies, which will then transfer much of it to Ukraine […]Editor Staff (SOFX)
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The Open Championship or the British Open? Even in Northern Ireland it depends on the audience
https://apnews.com/article/british-open-royal-portrush-name-open-championship-cd9a43962aeca2e9e055843625d93d86?utm_source=flipboard&utm_medium=activitypub
Posted into Sports @sports-AssociatedPress
You can follow us in other languages. Visit our website for more information wordsmith.social/protestation/…
Social
English– @protestation@friendica.eskimo.comFrançais– @protestation@social.trom.tf– @protestation@mastodon.social
Deutsch– @protestation@friendica.opensocial.space
Português– @protestation@mastodon.acc.sunet.se– @protestation@friendicarg.nsupdate.info
Quotes– @protestation@embers.social– @protestation@freeradical.zone
Roman era mosaic panel with erotic theme that was stolen during World War II returns to Pompeii
https://apnews.com/article/italy-pompeii-artwork-find-stolen-wwii-germany-cefd48bbdef050d6f70b0b2065784c19?utm_source=flipboard&utm_medium=activitypub
Posted into Entertainment @entertainment-AssociatedPress
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![Headline in the New York Times: "Democrats Must 'Toughen Up' Against [the guy currently in the White House], Obama Tells Donors"](https://friendica.eskimo.com/photo/preview/640/8035705 "Headline in the New York Times: \"Democrats Must 'Toughen Up' Against [the guy currently in the White House], Obama Tells Donors\"")
Nobody has made this conflation.
I reacted to the statement that gun-related issues and laws in Maine are a local problem, which they very clearly are not. The specific one at hand, a person using a firearm in their yard, might be framed as a local/municipal problem if one were inclined to ignore the context in which it's occurring. But I am not so inclined. Furthermore, it's a perfectly reasonable and valid political act to petition your state to take action that your municipality will not, and force it to be a statewide issue that needs to be addressed (which it is, and has been, for some time). That's how politics works. I found your responses here--that it's "just a local problem"--to be needlessly dismissive of an important issue. I'd also like to keep things friendly, but I don't find dismissiveness like that to be very friendly.
like this
N. E. Felibata 👽 reshared this.
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I found this site and its been fun to play with. I just sceenshot examples I like and then resize them. Free.
libertytree.ca/quotes/Arthur.G…
“It is fundamental that the great powers of Congress to conduct war and to regulate the Nation's foreign relations are subject to the constitutional requirements of due process. The imperative necessity for safeguarding these rights to procedural due process under the gravest of emergencies has existed throughout our constitutional history, for it is then, under the pressing exigencies of crisis, that there is the greatest temptation to dispense with…
"It is fundamental that the great powers of Congress to conduct war and to regulate the Nation's foreign relations are subject to the constitutional requirements of due process.LibertyQuotes
Support us: https://www.patreon.com/thecradlemediaFollow us on Telegram: https://t.me/thecradlemediaFollow us on Rumble: https://rumble.com/c/c-5481002Visit ...YouTube
libertytree.ca/quotes/Jeane.Ki…
“We have war when at least one of the parties to a conflict wants something more than it wants peace.”
~ Jeane J. Kirkpatrick
"We have war when at least one of the parties to a conflict wants something more than it wants peace." ~ Jeane J. KirkpatrickLibertyQuotes
Ich überlege, auf einen »Familien-Passwort-Manager« umzusteigen – also mit separaten Zugängen für alle, aber der Möglichkeit, Zugriffe gezielt zu teilen. Hintergrund ist auch das Thema digitaler Nachlass. Wie regelt ihr das in der Familie? Welche Dienste nutzt ihr, was hat sich bewährt?
#security #password #passwort #sicherheit #passwordmanager #passwortmanager
/kuk
@fuknukl or visit a local dairy farmer and get your yogurt from a good source made with proper ingredients
Use the raw milk finder
realmilk.com/raw-milk-finder/
More than 16,000 Afghans were secretly brought to the UK in largest covert peacetime evacuation after MoD put them in danger of being targeted by the Taliban. Social affairs correspondent Holly Bancroft reportsHolly Bancroft (The Independent)
Detained Gaza doctor Hussam Abu Safiya suffered severe beatings in Israeli detention in addition to being denied medical, his lawyer says.admin (Palestine Chronicle)
#Today one of my colleagues put my attention on this article, and to be honest I do love the reporting style. Meme's and writing like this?
"The ‘good news’, I suspect, is that most orgs will be too lacking in logs to have evidence."
"China go brrr"
At least it's not dry 
doublepulsar.com/citrixbleed-2…
#security #datasecurity #infosec #citrix #netscaler #citrix_netscaler #incident #exploit #meme #report
The ‘good news’, I suspect, is that most orgs will be too lacking in logs to have evidence. So they get to hope nothing too bad happened, I guess. The reason for this is the exploitation activity…Kevin Beaumont (DoublePulsar)
He's a grifter, fraud, and a narcissist. He's only making plans for Nigel. Not you. Not anyone else but himself
desmog.com/2025/07/15/with-fri…
Nigel Farage has spent his first year in Parliament giving speeches to radical right-wing groups close to President Donald Trump, making multiple trips to the U.S. to push his anti-climate agenda.Rei Takver (DeSmog)
i did make some mounting brackets for the car body work that solidly mounts a hydraulic cylinder on the frame but that was only for my 12 ton ram not the 30 ton.
just no time for this endless tool making right now. keep having to put stuff off til after the move and it's driving me nuts
A con trick of a party run by con men
desmog.com/2025/07/15/exposing…
Reform UK’s oil industry interests are a major turn-off for voters, new research reveals. The think tank Persuasion UK tested five anti-Reform messages on 6,000 adults.Sam Bright (DeSmog)
The FTSE 100 hits records, but Labour’s policies enrich the wealthy and neglect public services. Why isn’t this prosperity universal?Mike Sivier (Vox Political)
A LEADING expert on the Holocaust and genocide has arrived at the “inescapable conclusion” that Israel “committing genocide against the…Xander Elliards (The National)
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An open letter obtained exclusively by the Canary reveals the levels of anger and discontent from students with the NUS over GazaCharlie Jaay (The Canary)
The fallout over the Jeffrey Epstein files continues. Trump is hitting rock bottom on the topic and blames Obama. 00:00 - Start. 00:49 - The Epstein drama c...YouTube
Ansarullah’s Political Bureau: Those behind Sharaf’s kidnapping bear full responsibility for delaysenglish.masirahtv.net
Capital One, Walmart: A look at some of the consumer cases dropped by the CFPB under Trump
https://apnews.com/article/cfpb-trump-zelle-navy-federal-overdrafts-walmart-a35873d36fed83f5db76feaa844a1fb8?utm_source=flipboard&utm_medium=activitypub
Posted into Business and Finance @business-and-finance-AssociatedPress
Caleb James DeLisle
in reply to Robert R. • • •I don't know what you mean by "client list" but this was entered into evidence and then redacted:
justice.gov/opa/pr/attorney-ge…
Attorney General Pamela Bondi Releases First Phase of Declassified Epstein Files
www.justice.govRobert R.
in reply to Caleb James DeLisle • • •@cjd
Contact book is not a client list.
It's a phone directory. That's what was sealed in the Maxwell case to protect innocent people.
Being in Epstein's phone directory is not a crime, but if that phone book were released, it would destroy the lives of every person in it.
Caleb James DeLisle
in reply to Robert R. • • •If you're asking about a document that says: "Here are the people who I sold illegal sex from minors, signed J. Epstein", well, that probably does not exist, for obvious reason.
The real point is in his presidential campaign, Trump promised to do SOMETHING with the Epstein case, and now that he's president, nothing new has happened and he wants everyone to forget about it. Nobody has been indicted, no document has been disclosed.
So I'll accept that by your definition there's no list, but I think it's incumbent on you to prove that you're not wearing the Fell For It Again Award...
Robert R.
in reply to Caleb James DeLisle • • •@cjd
You Trump haters were always going to find a reason.
karnage
in reply to Robert R. • • •Robert R.
in reply to karnage • • •@karnage
That's pretty much what people are acting like they expect. lol
DeWalt
in reply to karnage • • •If I had to guess, there is most likely evidence of Money Laundering and Financial Crimes.
Not alot Sexual in nature.
Robert R.
in reply to DeWalt • • •@DeWalt @karnage
That's my guess too.
Aristocratic_Cthulhu
in reply to DeWalt • • •@DeWalt
Yeah, there has to be a ton of financial crime evidence in there. It's a typcial white collar crime and the people he surrounded himself with were all very affluent white collar workers.
@karnage @ILoveAmericaNews
Robert R.
in reply to Aristocratic_Cthulhu • • •@Aristocratic_Cthulhu @DeWalt @karnage
We have no idea what evidence still exists. My guess is Epstein was pretty good at covering his tracks.
DeWalt
in reply to Robert R. • • •He was hired by some very wealthy people for that very expertise.
Former Comrade (from Little Whinging, Fuckershire) KeepTakingTheSoma
in reply to Robert R. • • •boriquagato.substack.com/p/ass…
assessing epstein
el gato malo (bad cattitude)Robert R.
in reply to Former Comrade (from Little Whinging, Fuckershire) KeepTakingTheSoma • • •@KeepTakingTheSoma @Aristocratic_Cthulhu @DeWalt @karnage
It's mighty naive to think any damning evidence lasted through the Biden regime.
DeWalt
in reply to Robert R. • • •When the AG released the binders she was under the assumption that's what was held that wasn't under Seal of the Court.
A Whistle Blower came forward and stated the SDNY FBI was sitting on mountains of evidence.
Now, if that evidence was being held in other locations outside the SOP of DOJ Evidence and Archiving, then it stands to reason the Chain of Custody had been broken by unknown actors.
Former Comrade (from Little Whinging, Fuckershire) KeepTakingTheSoma
in reply to Robert R. • • •I now think that it is not possible to obtain any political power unless you have skeletons that can be held over you. It certainly explains why so many of our politicians think, act and talk in lockstep.
Robert R.
in reply to Former Comrade (from Little Whinging, Fuckershire) KeepTakingTheSoma • • •@KeepTakingTheSoma
That is the nature of government.
@Aristocratic_Cthulhu @DeWalt @karnage
Sir Winston Smith [NH] 🏴☠️
in reply to Robert R. • • •Robert R.
in reply to Sir Winston Smith [NH] 🏴☠️ • • •@thoughtcriminal
I am not sure any of that exists.
People are just assuming that the Trump administration is sitting on evidence of crimes against children, and I haven't seen any proof of that. Personally, I think all substantial evidence is long gone.
Joel [Minnesota]
in reply to Robert R. • • •Robert R.
in reply to Joel [Minnesota] • • •@fkq1q2r2
I am not sure any of it exists. If it ever did exist, it is long gone.