dustycloud.org/blog/how-decent…

I support what they wanna do with a credible exit, but claiming that their goal is to or that they do make it easy for multiple different social networks (your PDS is not a new network, it’s data locally stored for the existing network) to communicate with each other is just false

The idea of the Fediverse is simply a group of social networks communicating through the same protocol, is that not what ATProto is attempting to accomplish?

I've been a long time supporter that ATProto actually is apart of the Fediverse. The ultimate goal of this subreddit is a fully decentralized social media landscape. Fracturing discussion between ActivityPub and ATProto helps no one, especially in niche communities like this. The long-term goal is the same, and whether that progression happens on protocol A or platform B it's progressive nonetheless and we should discuss it.

Posted in another comment but wikipedia disagrees.

The Fediverse (commonly shortened to fedi)[4][5][6] is a collection of social networking services that can communicate with each other (formally known as federation) using a common protocol.

We can argue semantics all day but at the end of the day I'll hold the same stance that we shouldn't be fracturing the communities and instead discussing the content and idea of a decentralized communicating social media landscape.

I'm fully aware that might not be #1 goal at the end of the day, but we're starting to see multiple social media networks start to exist with their own infrastructure on ATProto (sprk.so/ is in beta) and more importantly hosted outside the US.

These separate networks can interact with the BlueSky network if they choose so and the BlueSky network can interact with theirs if they use their Lexicon. There are other lightweight apps being built on top of BlueSkys Lexicon and relay system as well that are whole separate apps.

To say that's not their goal is a little weird because it's possible right now? Sure it might be difficult but they've merged quite a few changes to make the relay system much more accessible, and have put a lot of effort into the identity system recently.

Spark Social - Spark Your Creativity

Join us as we build a more connected and human internet. Follow our journey, updates, and ideas on Spark.

^sprk.so

I believe you're quoting en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedivers…

It seems that document currently expresses that "the AT Protocol, which powers the Bluesky social network" is "[a] major protocol in competition with the Fediverse", which suggests that neither "the AT Protocol" nor "Bluesky" are included in the Fediverse.

Moreover, "AT Protocol" and "Bluesky" are conspicuously absent from the second paragraph of the article content / lead section.

The majority of Fediverse platforms are based on free and open-source software, and create connections between servers using the ActivityPub protocol. Some software still supports older federation protocols as well, such as OStatus, the Diaspora protocol and Zot. Diaspora* is the only actively developed software project classified under the original definition of Fediverse that does not support ActivityPub.

There discussion related to this around thebrainbin.org/m/fediverse@le…

Sl00k

2025-04-05 00:34:39

The literal first line of Wikipedia agrees with me?

The Fediverse (commonly shortened to fedi)[4][5][6] is a collection of social networking services that can communicate with each other (formally known as federation) using a common protocol.

The literal first line of Wikipedia agrees with me?

The Fediverse (commonly shortened to fedi)[4][5][6] is a collection of social networking services that can communicate with each other (formally known as federation) using a common protocol.

This is interesting, but I don't yet entirely understand it.

My first thought after trying to read the entire document was that the author seems to suggest that "AT Protocol" is a natural result of the movements they describe, but I find it hard to believe that the "peer-to-peer (p2p) movement" could naturally result in a system that is "not meaningfully decentralized" and "not federated".

I believe you're quoting en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedivers…

It seems that document currently expresses that "the AT Protocol, which powers the Bluesky social network" is "[a] major protocol in competition with the Fediverse", which suggests that neither "the AT Protocol" nor "Bluesky" are included in the Fediverse.

Moreover, "AT Protocol" and "Bluesky" are conspicuously absent from the second paragraph of the article content / lead section.

The majority of Fediverse platforms are based on free and open-source software, and create connections between servers using the ActivityPub protocol. Some software still supports older federation protocols as well, such as OStatus, the Diaspora protocol and Zot. Diaspora* is the only actively developed software project classified under the original definition of Fediverse that does not support ActivityPub.

There discussion related to this around thebrainbin.org/m/fediverse@le…

thirtyfold8625

2025-04-05 05:47:15

I believe you're quoting en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedivers…

It seems that document currently expresses that "the AT Protocol, which powers the Bluesky social network" is "[a] major protocol in competition with the Fediverse", which suggests that neither "the AT Protocol" nor "Bluesky" are included in the Fediverse.

Moreover, "AT Protocol" and "Bluesky" are conspicuously absent from the second paragraph of the article content / lead section.

The majority of Fediverse platforms are based on free and open-source software, and create connections between servers using the ActivityPub protocol. Some software still supports older federation protocols as well, such as OStatus, the Diaspora protocol and Zot. Diaspora* is the only actively developed software project classified under the original definition of Fediverse that does not support ActivityPub.

There discussion related to this around thebrainbin.org/m/fediverse@le…

open social media network using the ActivityPub protocol

^{Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)}

After reading the article i think you might be wrong with this one.

From what i got now is that there are 3 layers

First is storage which can be completly or is decentralised

Then backend/server/application layer which can be bsky or whatever ticktok alternative gets made which is not decentralised

and then user layer/view which depends on the application

What i want to say is that the relay can be exchanged through something else and then entirely including moderation and all

So pro atProto is:
* data seems to be actually decentralised
* applications sharing the data
* everyone gets the data

And pro ActivityPub is:
* more alternatives of the same application/server
* way better control over data (federation & defederation)
* servers interact with each other nativly (atPr seems to let the servers only interact with data)
* more efficient (servers can update clients, in case of at least bsky clients have to ask servers)

pro ActivityPub? (unsure about the technical details)
* moderation? As in shared lists
* able to host by individuals? As in i dont need an compute intensive relay

But what about the DIDs, the things used to actually identify accounts within the ATproto ecosystem:

But Bluesky has developed its own DID method, did:plc. Today, did:plc stands for "Public Ledger of Credentials", however it originally stood for "Placeholder DIDs", with the hope of replacing them with something else later. The way that did:plc works is that Bluesky hosts a web service from which one can register, retrieve, and rotate keys (and other associated DID document information). However, this ledger is centrally controlled by Bluesky.

It's literally not possible to have a functional PDS without registering with a Bluesky server and they maintain indefinite control over the ledger. All your data is tied to this DID, it's how the entire protocol is designed to identify stuff, how decentralised is your data if it's dependent on Blusky (the company) assigning you an identity?

This is false, they support did:web which ties your identity to ownership of a DNS name (which is its own can of worms, but not controlled by bluesky like PLC).

Unless you mean that you still have to register your pds it to get indexed by the relay, so people can read your posts without querying your server directly (which is possible but discouraged). This is actually an advantage over mastodon/activitypub however, your personal pds will not crash if a post goes viral (unlike a personal mastodon instance).