friendica.eskimo.com

Yingwu via Fediverse lemmy (AP)

Why do people on reddit seem to hate Lemmy/Mbin/other federated link aggregators?

I was just reading this post old.reddit.com/r/selfhosted/co… and many barely see the fediverse as an alternative and they seem to have a negative bias towards it. Super ironic when it comes to the self-hosting community. Yes, some instances are problematic, yes, some devs might have had problematic views. But it doesn't really matter when it's federated and FOSS. I think it's clear-cut that the selfhosting community on Lemmy is a perfect alternative to reddit. Why is there such a negative bias?
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simple lemmy (AP)
Yes, some instances are problematic, yes, some devs might have had problematic views.


I mean that's basically the crux of it. That, and some moderation drama, and the software being very buggy a year ago giving people a bad first impression, and Lemmy still being susceptible to spam.

It'll take some time before Lemmy (and the Threadiverse as a whole) improves its reputation and moves on from the "it's a tankie website" take. That said, a lot of people in that thread are making the case for Lemmy, so it's mostly just people worried it's not as popular.

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Yingwu lemmy (AP)
Even if it's not as popular, I'd say the community might still be more solid in some cases. And that people are more responsive, especially with quality answers. I've noticed you're chastised way more on reddit if you ask a "stupid" question.
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eldavi lemmy (AP)

The last 2 reddit userbase diasporas were wildly more different than all of the previous ones combined.

When voat became a thing everyone already knew ahead of time that it's ranks would be filled with facists; but it took a while for lemmy to earn its tankie stereotype and I'm also glad that lemmy's design helps ensure that it'll have more stamina that voat or any of the other reddit user digital refugee camp platforms that came before it.

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TheTechnician27 lemmy (AP)

I definitely avoided Lemmy the first go-round with the API fuckery because it seemed from the outside like basically just a tankie protest Reddit in a similar way to how Voat was just a neo-Nazi protest Reddit. To the Lemmy devs' absolute credit, they don't push new users toward any of those, though.

I thought one day after having had a Mastodon for some time that I might not have given Lemmy a fair shake, so I went back and ended up finding that most instances are basically normal Reddit fare but honestly less shitty than Reddit proper (there's a trade-off that posts are less frequent and that small, niche communities can attract unwanted attention by having their posts almost immediately show up in 'all').

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simple lemmy (AP)
Yup, things have definitely improved, especially with more extremist instances like lemmygrad being defederated and phased out. I do also want to give a shoutout to the devs for not pushing their stance and letting the platform grow naturally.
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Eldritch lemmy (AP)
Just gonna put this out there. The devs push their stance plenty. Within their scope to do it from their echo chamber. Other than stopping development there's little they could currently do to impact growth in any way. And there have been issues with their development focus that have negatively impacted growth. Recalcitrance to focus much on moderation tools for instance. As well as at least reported issues difficulty contributing to the project by others. Though that at least is hearsay.
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Sentient Loom lemmy (AP)
Threadiverse


Fediverse

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Threadiverse refers specifically to the subset of the Fediverse with threaded conversations, like Lemmy and Mbin.
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Sentient Loom lemmy (AP)
Sounds too much like Threads, the invasive corporate thing which can get fucked. Never going to market for them.
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Jumuta lemmy (AP)
don't let them change the meaning of our words then
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aasatru mbin (AP)

Likewise the heroic nerds of the Threadiverse coined the term months before Threads was even announced, and they would be hard pressed to give it up to some scumbag billionaire.

It's an epic culture war being fought by largerly agreeing parties.

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originalucifer mbin (AP)
that is a personal problem, not a general protocol based one.
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catloaf lemmy (AP)
It is a marketing problem.
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originalucifer mbin (AP)

i agree. bending over for people butthurt about meta seems like a great way to limit your market artificially.

then again, i named my public instance moist

1 4 1
superkret lemmy (AP)
The instance I first chose straight up disappeared, so yeah. It wasn't an easy migration.
8 2 1
Lemmchen lemmy (AP)
In contrast to reddit, whos leadership never made any controversial decisions. /s
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jonathan lemmy (AP)
Doesn't !selfhosted@lemmy.world have like 40k subscribers? Top ten Lemmy community by sub count, iirc.
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RubberDuck lemmy (AP)
Us vs them too. It's different, people hate change. So now there is a them and an us..
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Devs are allegedly Marxist-Leninists.

Redditors dont understand that devs dont exactly have full control of open source software, that different instances are not operated by the devs.

Edit: Lemmy devs to be specific

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r00ty mbin (AP)
Pretty sure that's only true about Lemmy. There are other threadiverse apps. The mistake is people calling the threadiverse lemmy.
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FundMECFSResearch lemmy (AP)
Yep, though the alternatives are not quite there yet software wise, but MBin and Piefed aren’t that far behind..
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r00ty mbin (AP)

I'm on a pretty old version of mbin (I have some modifications I made for federation issues back when it was kbin). I need to spend a weekend to pilot an upgrade and make sure I can run it safely live.

But even then it's better in some ways already and I never feel like I'm missing something from lemmy. But I think just calling the whole thing lemmy puts off people that are seeing things through a political lens.

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originalucifer mbin (AP)

yep. as an mbin cheerleader, i evaluated both and kbin was better looking and perfectly functional from the start. no app required. no custom user-land css.

but what really bothers me is the conflation of lemmy and fediverse. theyre used almost interchangeably. other platforms get lost in the discussion.

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FundMECFSResearch lemmy (AP)

Alledgedly?

Marxist Leninst is a nice way to put it, they support Putin, Xi. Zhedong and Stalin.

Thankfully as you say, it’s FOSS with free federation and defederation. Admins only have control over lemmy.ml.

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Mbin isn't
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Jumuta lemmy (AP)

I don't get the hate against the lemmy devs tbh, they have their (perhaps controversial) political views but they leave everyone that's not on their site alone and it feels like they develop lemmy pretty impartially

sure they might ban you off ml but that's their site and they get to do whatever they want with it, just like every other instance

i mean network effect is a thing i guess but that's not as important on lemmy where there are usually similarly large communities about generic things on most major instances

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IninewCrow lemmy (AP)

Exactly .... it's also a double standard because reddit is basically a capitalist model of the same digital system but no one ever complains or criticizes it.

The socialist digital creators built something and shared it freely with everyone and also don't exert control over anyone.

The capitalist digital creatures built something and locked it up, monetized it and are using the user's efforts as the basis for the business only the owners make money on and have complete control over everything.

It's amazing because it's a fantastic metaphor for the two platforms.

26 2 1
Alphane Moon lemmy (AP)

Calling them "socialist digital creators" is misleading at best, if not an outright insult to socialism.

They are marxists-leninists who whitewash the crimes committed by the USSR and CCP. They support the genocidal invasion by Russia, a country that is neither socialist or democratic; it's an authoritarian capitalist oligarchy.

There is no double standard. You don't see the CTO of reddit running a subreddit dedicated to whitewashing the Pinochet regime and/or western colonialism in Africa or Asia.

Reddit is run by sketchy and corrupt individuals, it is possible that in a just world we would even call them criminals. Lemmy's marxists-leninists are openly supportive of genocidal actions and brutal authoritarian leadership. There is no comparison.

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Shatur lemmy (AP)
Could provide a link to a comment or a quote where the devs whitewash the crimes or support genocides?
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Alphane Moon lemmy (AP)

My man, the head developer of lemmy is the admin of lemmygrad. He has a fucking Mao picture in his profile!

Don't even try to weasel your way around this. This is not going to work with me.

I hate these people. Pathetic larpers living in democratic countries while supporting authoritarianism and genocide. And when I say hate, I don't mean it in the internet slang way ("hater").

How should I put this without breaking any rules? I genuinely wish they meet the same fate as "Donbas Cowboy", Russell Bentley:

Bentley, 64, was a fixture in the low-level Russian incursion in Ukraine dating back to 2014. Calling himself the Donbas Cowboy, Bentley became a popular figure on Russian propaganda networks for his criticism of the U.S. government.

Bentley’s wife, Lyudmila, then claimed that Russian soldiers from a tank battalion abducted him.

According to the Investigative Committee, Vansyatsky, Agaltsev, and Iordanov tortured Bentley on April 8, and he died shortly afterward.

Vansyatsky and Agaltsev are suspected of blowing up a car with Bentley’s body in it and ordering Bazhin to get rid of what was left of his remains.

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Shatur lemmy (AP)
My man, the head developer of lemmy is the admin of lemmygrad


No, he is not. Check admins section on lemmygrad.ml, which profile do you think belongs to dessalines? He is only admin of lemmy.ml.

He has a fucking Mao picture in his profile!


It's a controversial figure, but it doesn't mean that the dev supports crimes or genocides.

How should I put this without breaking any rules? ...


You judge people who support genocide, I get it and I here with you. But wishing death upon others because of their opinions? That’s just hypocrisy.

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Alphane Moon lemmy (AP)
No, he is not. Check admins section on lemmygrad.ml, which profile do you think belongs to dessalines? He is only admin of lemmy.ml.


Are you sure about that? Why does this page state that:

Lemmygrad was created by dessalines and Farmer Heck.[a] It has over 34,000 posts and over 360 active users.[2]


With a further clarification that Muad'Dibber (who is currently an admin) is dessalines

Currently known as Muad'Dibber and Black Tulip, respectively, on Lemmygrad.'


Is Muad'Dibber not dessalines?

It’s a controversial figure, but it doesn’t mean that the dev supports crimes or genocides.


Controversial figure? Mao was a brutal dictator that directly caused an inordinate amount of deaths and suffering. He is no better than Stalin, Pinochet, Hitler or Pol Pot.

Since he runs lemmygrad, he most definitely supports the genocide of Ukrainians in the occupied territories. Before you start acting out, I'd like to see you and your family try and speak Ukrainian in the occupied and try and publicly oppose russian occupaiton. I think the example I provided with the “Donbas Cowboy”, Russell Bentley, should give you an idea of what life is like there.

And then there is also their support for the genocide of Uighurs in Xinjiang.

For you this is just random internet drama. I am not going to tolerate any degenerate LARPer shilling for russia and the CCP.

You judge people who support genocide, I get it and I here with you. But wishing death upon others because of their opinions? That’s just hypocrisy.


These are not mere opinions. These scoundrels wish me, my family and my fellow citizens harm in the most pathetic way possible; by LARPing online as marxist-leninists. It is reasonable to want them to end up like “Donbas Cowboy”, Russell Bentley. This a just and fair end for Western LARPers who whitewash genocide.

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Why does this page state that:


My bad, I didn’t know that! I assume it’s true then. Before the Reddit blackout, ML was a socialist-leaning instance (they edited the description of the instance), while Lemmygrad always were like this. It puzzles me why he might administrate both instances.

Mao was a brutal dictator that directly caused an inordinate amount of deaths and suffering


He made quite a lot of bad stuff, that's true. However, he also liberated the country from foreign occupation and advanced literacy, women's rights, basic healthcare, education, and life expectancy. China's population nearly doubled under his leadership. This is why he is considered controversial. It's strange to compare him with someone who occupied half of Europe.

he most definitely supports the genocide of Ukrainians in the occupied territories

These scoundrels wish me, my family and my fellow citizens harm


You made conclusions about his opinions yourself and are trying to argue against them. Condemn actual statements. I don’t see dessalines wishing harm on you, but I do see you doing the very thing you criticize him for.

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Alphane Moon lemmy (AP)
It puzzles me why he might administrate both instances.


Come on now. Does it really puzzle you why he would admin lemmygrad? I am sorry, I don't buy this.

He made quite a lot of bad stuff, that’s true. However, he also liberated the country from foreign occupation and advanced literacy, women’s rights, basic healthcare, education, and life expectancy. China’s population nearly doubled under his leadership. This is why he is considered controversial. It’s strange to compare him with someone who occupied half of Europe.


So you're saying that there is something inherent to Chinese culture that would not make it possible to advance literacy, women's right, basic healthcare without mass killings and brutality? Mao is a mass murderer.

You made conclusions about his opinions yourself and are trying to argue against them. Condemn actual statements. I don’t see dessalines wishing harm on you, but I do see you doing the very thing you criticize him for.


Dessalines admins a instance that openly supports russia's (a country that's not in any way socialist) genocidal invasion of my country. That's not wishing me harm?

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PoseidonsWake lemmy (AP)
For the same reason Youtube is doing with Odysee and Peertube - money - walled garden.
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I was just thinking about this because I've been going through and blocking every political community. I've found that when that is gone, there's really not that much left aside from random technology focused stuff, some memes, asinine twitter screenshots, and a fuck ton of linux stuff. And the comments sections of seemingly unrelated posts often devolve into political shit slinging. I'm on an instance that blocks lemmygrad and hexbear so I can imagine it's far worse for the ones that don't. I'm starting to sour on lemmy too because there's basically nothing here of interest to me anymore.
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eyestein lemmy (AP)
Well said. I’m feeling this way too.
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Stamets lemmy (AP)

As someone who used to be vehemently anti-lemmy, it's a few different reasons.

1) It's something new. Honestly is as simple as that. Most redditors are straight up threatened by new features, new looks, new anything. New Reddit is an example of that. To be fair it is hideous but it's also drastically underused according to reddits own metrics. This just stays consistently with everything. People prefer old subs to new, prefer old users to new, old memes to new. Why? Dunno. Could be as simple as just that they know it so it's comforting.

2) The propaganda that reddit put up against Lemmy was pretty insane. The first few mini-migrations set people up with weird expectations and a lot of them bounced back to reddit with weird notions. Some of it was based on shitty admins or shitty servers (cough lemmy.ml cough) but other things seemed to be almost coordinated against Lemmy. By the time that the big migration from Reddit killing off third party apps/API use a lot of people had heard one or two things and just started spreading it. Redditors often don't source material and just kinda spread rumors or 'feelings' or upvote one idiot who seems like he knows what he's talking about while blatantly lying. This has never gone away. The same idiots keep whining and being dismissive.

3) Redditors are hateful. Not purely hateful people or anything but the atmosphere encourages hate and division. I still browse reddit occasionally and I'll check the comments out about a post. It's always so bitter and angry, snapping out at one another. When every crab in the bucket is pulling you down, you get stuck in that habit too. Until you break free of reddit you don't realize just how bitter it's making you. Lemmy doesn't have those vibes and it can be really off putting to someone still in that bitterness. Kindness and people getting along almost comes off as stupid and naive so you just kinda dismiss the entirety of Lemmy as a whole.

4) This is a conspiracy but I'm positive that Reddit admins are purging a lot of references to Lemmy that don't show the site in a positive light. When the API shit was happening people kept pointing out that certain communities that were supportive of Lemmy suddenly got locked behind a NSFW curtain that forced users to be logged in to read the community. A lot of people talked about how certain posts and stuff were being removed, especially ones critical of Spez. I don't think they stopped that campaign and I think they still try to demonize the hell out of Lemmy. Could be because China has a significant hand in reddit now or it could be because Spez has a tiny dick and a tinier ego. Dunno. But I think they're weighting the scales.

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aasatru mbin (AP)

Out of curiosity, what made you change your mind and give it a chance? Any breaking point on Reddit's side, or just boredom or a sense of adventure?

In regular migration studies there's always talk of puah and pull factores; reasons for wanting to leave where you are, and reasons for wanting to go to the destination. While I personally like it here, I guess we are currently depending more on push factors than pull factors to attract people from Reddit.

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Stamets lemmy (AP)

Star Trek.

It's not even remotely a surprise to anyone that I'm a dedicated Trekkie and have been for quite some time. Also not much of a surprise to those aware of the Trek fandom that sometimes it can be kinda bitter towards shows that don't fit a certain trend. I happened to like one of those shows and was looking for a place to talk where it wasn't just constantly being bitched about. I was just googling around and found Startrek.website so I set up an account on lemmy.world to watch stuff over there for a couple months before eventually joining that instance. My original account still exists on lemmy.world and it's fairly early in the run of a lot of things. I've also gotten a few messages to that account simply because it's a single first name that other people wanted.

Anyway I started posting Trek memes to Risa and it went overboard. Before I realized people were making memes about me and I just sort of stuck around. Startrek.website showed it's administrators to be flagrantly abusive of not only their power but also of just people so I set up Stamets on this instance. Rest is history.

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Dr. Moose lemmy (AP)

Reddit 100% was censoring and shadow banning any kbin or lemmy mentions.

I wouldn't even be surprised if reddit actively promoted or even creates negative comments. There was a precedent of people abandoning Digg so they were clearly very aware and afraid.

At the end of the day it's impossible to tell with these incredibly opaque networks. It's even hard to confirm comment visibility as Reddit employs data fudging and shadow banning.

Just another reminder that nothing any closed source social media says should be trusted, ever.

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FundMECFSResearch lemmy (AP)
Main reason is people are too lazy to change their ways and don’t want to feel like they’ve been making the wrong choice all along.
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Zier mbin (AP)
We are having a great time over here in the Fediverse, and they are jealous.
So we will continue to have a blast, just to piss them off.
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Rentlar lemmy (AP)

The feel of Lemmy communities is a little different than Reddit, even if the software features are mostly analogous and there are many Redditisms used.

Your average commentor/poster will stand out more in a small community, there's less of being able to post and then slink away.

People have gotten used to a lot more comforting features of modern Reddit, Lemmy in both the users and in the software has more of a "Reddit 10-15 years ago" feel to it.

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originalucifer mbin (AP)
mbin is a bit less hostile (native reddit) looking than lemmy
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Hanrahan lemmy (AP)

Grumpy young boomers

Get off my internet!

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BonerMan lemmy (AP)

The biggest point is tankies and the toxic "left" people here and that Lemmy has some major problems regarding stability and the ability to effectively moderate.

Another point is that Lemmy has in may places worse moderation than reddit.

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Dariusmiles2123 lemmy (AP)

Yeah there are clearly some toxic people who won’t tolerate anything different than them. They can be leftists or rightists who are gonna hate you for whatever reason.

I didn’t have this feeling on reddit to be honest.

And it’s a shame because I’m censoring myself because of this on some subject where I could bring another point of view.

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TimeSquirrel mbin (AP)
The people you are probably referring to exist on like, two instances. Everybody always ends up on the ".ml" ones for their first experience and is immediately horrified by the hardcore tankie content. That's because those specific instances are run by actual Marxist-Leninists.
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Dariusmiles2123 lemmy (AP)
Well it happened to me mostly in technology communities where my job as a police man in a country without too much corruption was giving me a different point of view than people who were seeing a corrupt government spying on them all the time.
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BonerMan lemmy (AP)

I haven't seen a single "right" person on Lemmy, except when you count the Stalinists as right (wich they kinda are)

And I hate that there are so many of them.

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Dariusmiles2123 lemmy (AP)
Yeah to be honest it’s true that I’ve only seen lefties. I’m sometimes on the left side and sometimes on the right side, but it’s crazy how you can’t really express an opinion without being insulted or other things..
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BonerMan lemmy (AP)

You can't say anything without people hating on you. I'm a actual social Democrat and therefore the worst enemy of tankies and Stalinists.

I don't care what they say about me, I care when they are in charge of anything and ban people for other opinions, wich happens a lot.

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originalucifer mbin (AP)
Lemmy has in may places worse moderation than reddit.


yet this is exactly what the fediverse was designed to work around. giving the power back to the users. when .ml decides to block a bunch of shit due to butt-hurt mods, communities can be moved elsewhere without everyone having to make new accounts.

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BonerMan lemmy (AP)
These many places tend to be the biggest and most popular places...
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originalucifer mbin (AP)
agreed that we need to work on scaling out horizontally. i think that ironically poor moderation will help with this over time. it took reddit 20 years to get where it is.
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BonerMan lemmy (AP)
Lemmy instances are a pain in the ass to keep working, most people with a life won't do that and people without a life are usually extremists.
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originalucifer mbin (AP)

sounds like a lot of conjecture to me. i think there is hope in groups owning, operating and funding their own instances. software platforms will get better over time. funding pathways will get better over time.

i dont think we should just toss our hands up and say 'nope, too hard. only jerks need apply'

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Auster lemmy (AP)

I can conjecture some things, though I can't be 100% sure on either:

First, maybe it's fanatics/fanboys that don't like competition making their platform less relevant. Second, it's paid actors complaining. Third, it's robot accounts making posts. Fourth, as proposed in the OP, people are getting the wrong impression due to noisy and problematic bubbles. Fifth, people being scared of leaving their comfort zone. Sixth, a mix of either some or all the previous possibilities.

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Nougat mbin (AP)
And seven, seven, n-n-n-n-no tomorrow
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Zak lemmy (AP)

The higher-score comments there don't seem to be particularly hostile to Lemmy. They talk about legitimate concerns like whether Lemmy as it exists now could deal with a Reddit-size volume of data, The top comment at this time speaks favorably of !selfhosted@lemmy.world.

Of course people who are still using Reddit are more likely to view Reddit as favorable or acceptable and alternatives as problematic, or not quite there yet. I'm actively Fediverse-first in my use of social media, but I still end up on Reddit quite a bit for niche interests because that's where the most people are.

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originalucifer mbin (AP)
its a chicken and egg thing. the fediverse cant scale if we arent pressured to fix scaling issues. we need users to highlight the pain points so we can fix things that allow those users.
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Cheradenine lemmy (AP)

Number 1 comment is

Reddit ain't going anywhere fast.


If r/selfhosted has to rely on reddit as it can't be fucked selfhosting, what chance do other subs have.

I have found Lemmy selfhosted communities excellent, they are not a large as Reddit but there are plenty knowledgeable people, often seflhosting their own little reddit.

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secret300 lemmy (AP)

The irony of a self hosted community refusing to self host...

Honestly back during the API fiasco I was honestly expecting the mods their to make their own instance together. The fact they didn't blew me away

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_bcron_ lemmy (AP)

Lemmy has a toxic puddle problem. If your first experience with Lemmy is sauntering into a community and getting chased out for not agreeing with someone hard enough, something like that, you'll probably just go back to Reddit and say 'that place is full of whack jobs'.

And the default sort, kinda hard to dodge

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FundMECFSResearch lemmy (AP)
My experience is a little better with comments sorted by “top” instead of “active”. “active” seems to promote controversial comments because they get the most replies.
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Scrubbles lemmy (AP)

It's very hard to convince people that fedi is a healthy place when the default servers are incredibly toxic. I wish they would at least advertise it as such, maybe hide the default from the number one spot. There are several servers up there that accept users that are way more chill.

Also for new selfhosters making it easier to say "these are some problem instances that are commonly blocked, if you want to start out with them". I know that starts a new problem of "but then who decides" and it causes more splintering, but for a lot of posters it's overwhelming the firehouse of vitriol that comes in at first.

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AWildMimicAppears lemmy (AP)
just wanted to drop that for the selfhosters there is fediseer.com/ which provides an API (which makes getting a crowdsourced and up to date whitelist easy)
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thoro lemmy (AP)

Yeah whatever, that's a feature. Reddit became worse once it became a safe place for conservatives and center-right liberals to gather.

Conservative, TheDonald, KiA, red pill, et. all made Reddit worse.

I don't want a second Reddit. Can better avoid eternal September issues if they self select to fuck off

But I guess that's what .world is for.

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_bcron_ lemmy (AP)

A lot of communities on Lemmy have a 'scene kid' subculture and they will just harass people right off the platform for not being true enough to the cause, despite being for the cause.

You got a bunch of raindrops. They want to become a hurricane. They simply need a warm breeze but shit blows sideways instead. The corners of Lemmy where movements could be happening are basically mosh pits

I'm not trying to argue with you or correct you or anything, just pointing out why this is bad, how it shouldn't be as it is, but it's on deaf ears to the people I'm lamenting about. And you're correct, a 2nd Reddit would suck, but Lemmy could be better if those people were being better.

If there's anything anyone mad about anything in the world should know, by know, don't attack people on the same team, welcome them in

This entry was edited (3 days ago)
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5714 lemmy (AP)
I don't quite understand your point. Do you maybe have some examples to understand better?
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_bcron_ lemmy (AP)

I actually blocked most of those groups but one was some climate community on another instance. There was a post where someone asked what they could do personally to help prevent climate change, and it was full of political theory as a response.

Someone said they actively boycott Starbucks because the CEO flies a jet in order to commute to Seattle to California, and if the government won't do anything they felt like the least they can do is just commit to never giving them and their lobbyists a single penny ever again.

And they were downvoted to like -20 and had a dozen people attacking them over shifting the blame from the corporations to the working class by framing it in such a way that the working class should have any responsibility for the actions of the corporation. It was like watching a bunch of picketers calling someone a scab.

And I'm just reading it like "what the fuck guys, you're sitting around discussing political strategies that have so far done absolutely nothing, they're doing something, they have a point, the lobbyists make the laws, so defunding the lobbyists does make a lot of sense. He's flying in a jet to work because people give him money, helllLLLOOOooo."

Someone even went so far as to argue that a lot of people need to go to Starbucks because they might need a quiet space to study or hang out, so I jumped in pointing out that most municipalities have a library at the minimum, and people were fine before coffee shops were everywhere, and I got downvoted and jumped on by half a dozen people for not understanding the plight of others.

Homeless people need somewhere to go, so I'm an asshole for suggesting that other people could go to Starbucks less? Beats the hell out of me

In some climate forum, for no reason other than to win a stupid internet argument over the responsibility of emissions, everyone began defending the necessity of Starbucks of all things. Seriously. And at the same time, consumers shouldn't have to endure hardships for the climate because they should instead focus on affecting policy, in order for places like Starbucks to change, because they're fucking horrible. In my mind I was just like "well are corporations good or bad, or at the moment are they just convenient as both in order to use that person as a punching bag?" but noped right out.

It was basically a rat's nest of tangled up incongruent statements that all led back to 'fuck that person for saying they make a very small effort to do something towards a corporation as opposed to attempting to reshape politics'

So yeah, shit like that.

Maybe a simple "while I disagree with A due to B, it does have some merit because of C. But in my opinion I think D is more effective, and if you'd like to learn more about D, here are some resources! :)"

This entry was edited (2 days ago)
9 1 1
5714 lemmy (AP)

I'd argue that at this point, sticking to the collective vs individual dichotomy of climate attribution and action potential is climate action delayist. When your argument relies you or your group intentionally doing absolutely nothing to combat climate change, you don't really have climate change in mind.

Leftism sometimes cares more about class than its very foundation, the environment, to understand why there is a problem with blame-shifting.


I've seen this in a similar fashion in relationship advice forums: Commenters not engaging with the issue or person, but knee-jerk reacting with advising instant breakup.

1 1
secret300 lemmy (AP)
That's also reddit tho...
1
Nanook friendica
Could be their total intolerance for opposing views, don't see that on Reddit but it's rampant on Lemmy.
8 2 1
5714 lemmy (AP)
I haven't been on reddit for over a year, but I cannot imagine that topics like say atheism don't polarise. What makes you think it is the case?
1
Nanook friendica
@5714 But there because it's divided into groups, those of us not interested in atheism never even look at it.
1
Nanook friendica
A good example of this is LiPoly, a twit on a Lemmy instance, downvotes every post I make.
1
Optional lemmy (AP)

What do you expect from a bunch of lazy T_D chuds, bots, and n00bz

Ha haaaa! Right? Up top!

3 1 1
Lvxferre lemmy (AP)

Besides other factors mentioned in this thread, there's also

  • selection bias: people with a positive view of Lemmy already migrated, so the leftover is bound to have more negative views
  • older userbase: older people use language in a different way, talk about different topics, and dig into those topics in a different way. That often makes younger people throw a tantrum.
  • group identity: for those "AS A SNOO" we're basically apostates.
  • edit: personal drama between higher ups is more visible here than in Reddit.
This entry was edited (3 days ago)
15 1
sunzu2 mbin (AP)

Older userbase makes this place a lot more useful, outside of politcs and news subs you are dealing with who can provide good information, ie how reddit used to work.

Drama has its place... it is provocative and it gets people going... we need more engagement! We are deff getting there too, meme subs were spamming all 1 year ago, now there is enough threads to keep a reader busy without fluff memes.

7 1 1
Lvxferre lemmy (AP)

I agree with you that both things have their upsides; and frankly, I don't even think that we should be pandering to the immigration leftover wallowing in Reddit. Growth is good, but growth should never come at the expense of the community that you're trying to grow.

However I feel like those points help to explain why the "lol lmao" crowds hate this place.

6 1
Nanook friendica
@Lvxferre @sunzu2 On the other hand, if you banish all opposing views all you're left with is an echo chamber and stagnation, no progress.
2 1
sunzu2 mbin (AP)

I would never support banish anyone, just to be clear. I know that sentiment is popular around here and reddit.

Everyone within reason should be able to express themselves here that's entire point of fediverse being the front page of the internet, a proper one!

Younger folk do seem to self select out of place that won't an echo chamber but that ain't a young folk thing..

Just check politics on lemmy.world 🤡

1
Lvxferre lemmy (AP)
My concerns about the "immigration leftover" is not their opposing views, but their behaviour. I don't want to deal with the "waaah the world revolves around my belly, why are you too stupid to understand that?" crowds and their incessant whining.
1
Nanook friendica
@Lvxferre Yes bad behaviors are on all sides, how do we reign in that human tendency towards self justification and aggression and get to the point where we can discuss or even argue if we must, facts and ideas, based upon their merits alone without so much emotional overtone?
This entry was edited (2 days ago)
Shoreline, WA, USA
1
Ofiuco lemmy (AP)

Speaking from a third-world country, there are 2 main weaknesses the fediverse has for us:

  • selfhosting is not easy or cheap for us, so we can only use what it's already there... And it's basically all in english, so most people are out.
  • meta has everyone grabbed by the balls and people are happy like that (for some reason), anything new or different is met with endless excuses.

There used to be a mexican instance called Mujico, but they were forced to use a whitelist by constant troll attacks... But they also federated with grad so I can't feel bad about it. I don't know if it still exists but the last time I checked it had zero activity.

21 1
Rakenclaw mbin (AP)
No idea, quit Reddit over a year ago for fedia/lemmy. Never used x/twitter either, i use mastodon.
17 1 1
sunzu2 mbin (AP)

I am pretty sure most people are here for idealogical reasons so lack of things is a nothing burger for them.

Normies only care about ease of use and network effect. Until fediverse brings usability, we aint even compete for the network.

9 2 1
meep_launcher lemmy (AP)

Normie here, Lemmy is pretty easy to use imo. I think the transition is happening now kinda like the Internet in the 90s or online dating in the 10's.

Ofc I just got here and I'm using Voyager.

A theory I have is that everyone who hates reddit eventually left leaving the milk bags brains. I was mod of r/mapporncirclejerk and left when I saw my mod queue get exponentially worse. My friend told me it was because the decent people left for Lemmy.

Now I'm mod of !cartographyanarchy@lemm.ee and it's sooooo much easier.

This entry was edited (2 days ago)
6 1 1
sunzu2 mbin (AP)
I was mod of r/mapporncirclejerk


I used to lurk, thank you for your service 🫡

6 1 1
secret300 lemmy (AP)

Idk I find Lemmy easier to use. I go to Lemmy site -> I use site

I go to reddit -> I get asked to turn of my VPN -> get asked to login -> get asked to download mobile app -> accept cookies -> I finally use site.

Damn reddit is so much easier

1 1
Nanook friendica
@secret300 @sunzu2 Odd, I just use it from Firefox on my desktop. It does want me to accept cookies, that is how websites maintain a login session since otherwise http is a stateless protocol.
1
sunzu2 mbin (AP)
-> I get asked to turn of my VPN ->


Yes 🐸

secondary reason why i left reddit, they don't respect a person who respects him or her self... not long after i learned that's corpo's MO and that's how i become radicalized linux enjoyer haha

1 1
Ithorian lemmy (AP)
Because people off Reddit hate everything that its not reddit
18 1 1
dave lemmy (AP)
People on Reddit. We’re the people off Reddit :)
7 1 1
Phoenixz lemmy (AP)
I was a redditor for 13 years, I now hate reddit. There is hope
1 1
GladiusB lemmy (AP)
We aren't Russian bots?
5 2 1
Anyone still left on Reddit is either too ignorant about the alternatives to Reddit to even have an opinion or is actively trying to keep people on Reddit for Reddit.
This entry was edited (2 days ago)
6 3 1
Nexy lemmy (AP)
I left reddit after a cyberbully situation because I defended a nonbinary person in a post in the sega dreamcast subreddit.
4 2 1
Nanook friendica
@Nexy @🇰 🌀 🇱 🇦 🇳 🇦 🇰 ℹ️ Probably a game subreddit which is going to attract minors is not the best place to discuss sexual perversions.
1 12 1
Nexy lemmy (AP)
Interesting choice of words...
3 1
Nanook friendica
@🇰 🌀 🇱 🇦 🇳 🇦 🇰 ℹ️ @Nexy Just conjecture, I'm not following that particular subredit but I can see even considering it well this is the difference between lemmy and reddit demonstrated, NO TOLERANCE FOR OPPOSING VIEWS.
3 1
ayyy lemmy (AP)
Gender is not inherently sexual, you’re the one making this weird.
4 1
Nanook friendica
@ayyy Need to look up the term gender dysphoria in the DSM. Stop mutilating children so that they have no reproductive potential as adults.
5 1
ayyy lemmy (AP)
What the fuck are you even talking about
4 1
Nanook friendica
@ayyy If you're that uninformed then you are not qualified to speak of gender.
4 1
Nanook friendica
@ayyy Sorry you disagree, but fact remains you can't redefine language to mean whatever suits your agenda.
1 5 1

Almost everyone in the linked Reddit post seems to be supportive of Lemmy, or even Lemmy users. Even the people who tried it and stopped seem generally warm to the idea and just think it needs polish.

I'd say that this comment section is way more vitriolic than that one lol

24 1
Nanook friendica
@PeriodicallyPedantic @Yingwu This is what I meant by Reddit being more tolerant of opposing views than lemmy.
4 1 1
nutsack lemmy (AP)
they like seeing ads and clicking on the little weird alien thing
1
zerozaku lemmy (AP)
I am getting to know that lemmy.ml guys are bad, so do you all avoid subbing to lemmy.ml communities? I have bunch of their communities subbed so not sure if I should move away or not.
2 4 1
Nanook friendica
@zerozaku @Yingwu It's new. I saw a similar phenomena with Mastodon in it's inception but as the userbase grew a more balanced narrative emerged.
1
Saleh lemmy (AP)
Most lemmy.ml users and communities are perfectly fine. I didnt notice a higher number of problematic users from ml than from other instances mine is federated to. I think hexbear and lemmygrad and a bunch of nazi instances are defederated.
5 7 1
Nanook friendica
@Saleh @zerozaku Yes if you agree with them an echo chamber is comfortable, but it provides no path to progress.
1
Sam_Bass lemmy (AP)
.ml is mostly a linux-centric hub. anything else is just a distraction
2 5 1
viking lemmy (AP)

That was the first instance out there, so amany early adopter communities are hosted there. I've blocked a handful problematic users and all the communist stuff and other topics I don't agree with or care about, but by and large it's alright.

Hexbear.net and lemmygrad.ml are instances I've blocked altogether.

9 1 1
Spiritsong lemmy (AP)

For some reason after reading this (because I'm very new to Lemmy), your post made me feel like that squiggly thing / slime inside the box that wanted freedom, then the moment it takes a step outside, got punched back in and now is happily being inside the box, even if its cramped.

I think it was a meme too.

Yeah, but I do feel that way (after taking a look there)

3 1
DarkThoughts mbin (AP)
I block all .ml communities that pop up on my feed. Somewhere between 200-300 on my blocklist by now (not all exclusively from .ml of course, but most of them).
2 1
blackn1ght lemmy (AP)
Why not block the entire instance in your settings?
1 1
DarkThoughts mbin (AP)
Because that isn't an option.
1 1
blackn1ght lemmy (AP)

It is. Go into your account settings -> blocks and at the bottom is a section for blocking instances.

I've got Lemmy.ml in there. You'll still see comments from their users and posts from users in other communities but you shouldn't see any of their communities in your feed.

1
DarkThoughts mbin (AP)
It's not. I'm not using Lemmy.
1
blackn1ght lemmy (AP)
Ah right fair enough.
1
Sam_Bass lemmy (AP)
we are like their penal colony in revolt, maybe
15 1 1
Riccosuave lemmy (AP)
So are we going with Lem-stralia, Lem-Rok Nor, or Lem-giers as our colony name?
1 1

Sunk Cost Fallacy

24 1 1
Flying Squid lemmy (AP)

100%. That's why it took me until the end of June to join Lemmy even though the blackout was on June 12th.

And I was already hating Reddit before the blackout. But FOMO made me stay and I feel bad about it.

7 1
DJDarren lemmy (AP)
Also; tribalism.
2 1
secret300 lemmy (AP)
I completely forgot about this term. Sums up everything
1
Nanook friendica
Of course it won't happen in my life time because frankly, I'm old, but people who have sex with the same sex aren't going to reproduce, people who cut their sex bits off won't reproduce, so sooner or later this is a problem that will resolve itself.
TimewornTraveler lemmy (AP)

I mean, read the post? They explain themselves pretty well there. Or are you linking it with hopes we'll brigade or something?

Lemmy hate comes down to two or three things: they don't like communists, or they're confused by it. Or they're waiting for it to be bigger.

8 1
BoxOfFeet lemmy (AP)
That would require making a reddit account. Ew.
1
blue_berry lemmy (AP)
I'm pretty sure most just don't know about us or don't care
1

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