friendica.eskimo.com
I personally hate that 3rd party reddit apps no longer exist. Yes you can patch old ones but they don't get updates anymore and yes Infinity...reddit
Devs are allegedly Marxist-Leninists.
Redditors dont understand that devs dont exactly have full control of open source software, that different instances are not operated by the devs.
Edit: Lemmy devs to be specific
I'm on a pretty old version of mbin (I have some modifications I made for federation issues back when it was kbin). I need to spend a weekend to pilot an upgrade and make sure I can run it safely live.
But even then it's better in some ways already and I never feel like I'm missing something from lemmy. But I think just calling the whole thing lemmy puts off people that are seeing things through a political lens.
yep. as an mbin cheerleader, i evaluated both and kbin was better looking and perfectly functional from the start. no app required. no custom user-land css.
but what really bothers me is the conflation of lemmy and fediverse. theyre used almost interchangeably. other platforms get lost in the discussion.
Alledgedly?
Marxist Leninst is a nice way to put it, they support Putin, Xi. Zhedong and Stalin.
Thankfully as you say, it’s FOSS with free federation and defederation. Admins only have control over lemmy.ml.
I don't get the hate against the lemmy devs tbh, they have their (perhaps controversial) political views but they leave everyone that's not on their site alone and it feels like they develop lemmy pretty impartially
sure they might ban you off ml but that's their site and they get to do whatever they want with it, just like every other instance
i mean network effect is a thing i guess but that's not as important on lemmy where there are usually similarly large communities about generic things on most major instances
Exactly .... it's also a double standard because reddit is basically a capitalist model of the same digital system but no one ever complains or criticizes it.
The socialist digital creators built something and shared it freely with everyone and also don't exert control over anyone.
The capitalist digital creatures built something and locked it up, monetized it and are using the user's efforts as the basis for the business only the owners make money on and have complete control over everything.
It's amazing because it's a fantastic metaphor for the two platforms.
Calling them "socialist digital creators" is misleading at best, if not an outright insult to socialism.
They are marxists-leninists who whitewash the crimes committed by the USSR and CCP. They support the genocidal invasion by Russia, a country that is neither socialist or democratic; it's an authoritarian capitalist oligarchy.
There is no double standard. You don't see the CTO of reddit running a subreddit dedicated to whitewashing the Pinochet regime and/or western colonialism in Africa or Asia.
Reddit is run by sketchy and corrupt individuals, it is possible that in a just world we would even call them criminals. Lemmy's marxists-leninists are openly supportive of genocidal actions and brutal authoritarian leadership. There is no comparison.
My man, the head developer of lemmy is the admin of lemmygrad. He has a fucking Mao picture in his profile!
Don't even try to weasel your way around this. This is not going to work with me.
I hate these people. Pathetic larpers living in democratic countries while supporting authoritarianism and genocide. And when I say hate, I don't mean it in the internet slang way ("hater").
How should I put this without breaking any rules? I genuinely wish they meet the same fate as "Donbas Cowboy", Russell Bentley:
Bentley, 64, was a fixture in the low-level Russian incursion in Ukraine dating back to 2014. Calling himself the Donbas Cowboy, Bentley became a popular figure on Russian propaganda networks for his criticism of the U.S. government.Bentley’s wife, Lyudmila, then claimed that Russian soldiers from a tank battalion abducted him.
According to the Investigative Committee, Vansyatsky, Agaltsev, and Iordanov tortured Bentley on April 8, and he died shortly afterward.
Vansyatsky and Agaltsev are suspected of blowing up a car with Bentley’s body in it and ordering Bazhin to get rid of what was left of his remains.
Russell Bentley, a Texas man who as the "Donbas Cowboy" gained notoriety for joining Russian-backed forces in eastern Ukraine, was tortured before being killed in the Russian-occupied Ukrainian city of Donetsk, Russian authorities said.Current Time (RFE/RL)
My man, the head developer of lemmy is the admin of lemmygrad
No, he is not. Check admins section on lemmygrad.ml, which profile do you think belongs to dessalines? He is only admin of lemmy.ml.
He has a fucking Mao picture in his profile!
It's a controversial figure, but it doesn't mean that the dev supports crimes or genocides.
How should I put this without breaking any rules? ...
You judge people who support genocide, I get it and I here with you. But wishing death upon others because of their opinions? That’s just hypocrisy.
No, he is not. Check admins section on lemmygrad.ml, which profile do you think belongs to dessalines? He is only admin of lemmy.ml.
Are you sure about that? Why does this page state that:
Lemmygrad was created by dessalines and Farmer Heck.[a] It has over 34,000 posts and over 360 active users.[2]
With a further clarification that Muad'Dibber (who is currently an admin) is dessalines
Currently known as Muad'Dibber and Black Tulip, respectively, on Lemmygrad.'
Is Muad'Dibber not dessalines?
It’s a controversial figure, but it doesn’t mean that the dev supports crimes or genocides.
Controversial figure? Mao was a brutal dictator that directly caused an inordinate amount of deaths and suffering. He is no better than Stalin, Pinochet, Hitler or Pol Pot.
Since he runs lemmygrad, he most definitely supports the genocide of Ukrainians in the occupied territories. Before you start acting out, I'd like to see you and your family try and speak Ukrainian in the occupied and try and publicly oppose russian occupaiton. I think the example I provided with the “Donbas Cowboy”, Russell Bentley, should give you an idea of what life is like there.
And then there is also their support for the genocide of Uighurs in Xinjiang.
For you this is just random internet drama. I am not going to tolerate any degenerate LARPer shilling for russia and the CCP.
You judge people who support genocide, I get it and I here with you. But wishing death upon others because of their opinions? That’s just hypocrisy.
These are not mere opinions. These scoundrels wish me, my family and my fellow citizens harm in the most pathetic way possible; by LARPing online as marxist-leninists. It is reasonable to want them to end up like “Donbas Cowboy”, Russell Bentley. This a just and fair end for Western LARPers who whitewash genocide.
Lemmygrad is a communist, Marxist-Leninist social media platform founded in August 2019. Lemmygrad is based on Lemmy. Lemmygrad was created by dessalines and Farmer...ProleWiki
Why does this page state that:
My bad, I didn’t know that! I assume it’s true then. Before the Reddit blackout, ML was a socialist-leaning instance (they edited the description of the instance), while Lemmygrad always were like this. It puzzles me why he might administrate both instances.
Mao was a brutal dictator that directly caused an inordinate amount of deaths and suffering
He made quite a lot of bad stuff, that's true. However, he also liberated the country from foreign occupation and advanced literacy, women's rights, basic healthcare, education, and life expectancy. China's population nearly doubled under his leadership. This is why he is considered controversial. It's strange to compare him with someone who occupied half of Europe.
he most definitely supports the genocide of Ukrainians in the occupied territoriesThese scoundrels wish me, my family and my fellow citizens harm
You made conclusions about his opinions yourself and are trying to argue against them. Condemn actual statements. I don’t see dessalines wishing harm on you, but I do see you doing the very thing you criticize him for.
It puzzles me why he might administrate both instances.
Come on now. Does it really puzzle you why he would admin lemmygrad? I am sorry, I don't buy this.
He made quite a lot of bad stuff, that’s true. However, he also liberated the country from foreign occupation and advanced literacy, women’s rights, basic healthcare, education, and life expectancy. China’s population nearly doubled under his leadership. This is why he is considered controversial. It’s strange to compare him with someone who occupied half of Europe.
So you're saying that there is something inherent to Chinese culture that would not make it possible to advance literacy, women's right, basic healthcare without mass killings and brutality? Mao is a mass murderer.
You made conclusions about his opinions yourself and are trying to argue against them. Condemn actual statements. I don’t see dessalines wishing harm on you, but I do see you doing the very thing you criticize him for.
Dessalines admins a instance that openly supports russia's (a country that's not in any way socialist) genocidal invasion of my country. That's not wishing me harm?
As someone who used to be vehemently anti-lemmy, it's a few different reasons.
1) It's something new. Honestly is as simple as that. Most redditors are straight up threatened by new features, new looks, new anything. New Reddit is an example of that. To be fair it is hideous but it's also drastically underused according to reddits own metrics. This just stays consistently with everything. People prefer old subs to new, prefer old users to new, old memes to new. Why? Dunno. Could be as simple as just that they know it so it's comforting.
2) The propaganda that reddit put up against Lemmy was pretty insane. The first few mini-migrations set people up with weird expectations and a lot of them bounced back to reddit with weird notions. Some of it was based on shitty admins or shitty servers (cough lemmy.ml cough) but other things seemed to be almost coordinated against Lemmy. By the time that the big migration from Reddit killing off third party apps/API use a lot of people had heard one or two things and just started spreading it. Redditors often don't source material and just kinda spread rumors or 'feelings' or upvote one idiot who seems like he knows what he's talking about while blatantly lying. This has never gone away. The same idiots keep whining and being dismissive.
3) Redditors are hateful. Not purely hateful people or anything but the atmosphere encourages hate and division. I still browse reddit occasionally and I'll check the comments out about a post. It's always so bitter and angry, snapping out at one another. When every crab in the bucket is pulling you down, you get stuck in that habit too. Until you break free of reddit you don't realize just how bitter it's making you. Lemmy doesn't have those vibes and it can be really off putting to someone still in that bitterness. Kindness and people getting along almost comes off as stupid and naive so you just kinda dismiss the entirety of Lemmy as a whole.
4) This is a conspiracy but I'm positive that Reddit admins are purging a lot of references to Lemmy that don't show the site in a positive light. When the API shit was happening people kept pointing out that certain communities that were supportive of Lemmy suddenly got locked behind a NSFW curtain that forced users to be logged in to read the community. A lot of people talked about how certain posts and stuff were being removed, especially ones critical of Spez. I don't think they stopped that campaign and I think they still try to demonize the hell out of Lemmy. Could be because China has a significant hand in reddit now or it could be because Spez has a tiny dick and a tinier ego. Dunno. But I think they're weighting the scales.
Out of curiosity, what made you change your mind and give it a chance? Any breaking point on Reddit's side, or just boredom or a sense of adventure?
In regular migration studies there's always talk of puah and pull factores; reasons for wanting to leave where you are, and reasons for wanting to go to the destination. While I personally like it here, I guess we are currently depending more on push factors than pull factors to attract people from Reddit.
Star Trek.
It's not even remotely a surprise to anyone that I'm a dedicated Trekkie and have been for quite some time. Also not much of a surprise to those aware of the Trek fandom that sometimes it can be kinda bitter towards shows that don't fit a certain trend. I happened to like one of those shows and was looking for a place to talk where it wasn't just constantly being bitched about. I was just googling around and found Startrek.website so I set up an account on lemmy.world to watch stuff over there for a couple months before eventually joining that instance. My original account still exists on lemmy.world and it's fairly early in the run of a lot of things. I've also gotten a few messages to that account simply because it's a single first name that other people wanted.
Anyway I started posting Trek memes to Risa and it went overboard. Before I realized people were making memes about me and I just sort of stuck around. Startrek.website showed it's administrators to be flagrantly abusive of not only their power but also of just people so I set up Stamets on this instance. Rest is history.
Reddit 100% was censoring and shadow banning any kbin or lemmy mentions.
I wouldn't even be surprised if reddit actively promoted or even creates negative comments. There was a precedent of people abandoning Digg so they were clearly very aware and afraid.
At the end of the day it's impossible to tell with these incredibly opaque networks. It's even hard to confirm comment visibility as Reddit employs data fudging and shadow banning.
Just another reminder that nothing any closed source social media says should be trusted, ever.
The feel of Lemmy communities is a little different than Reddit, even if the software features are mostly analogous and there are many Redditisms used.
Your average commentor/poster will stand out more in a small community, there's less of being able to post and then slink away.
People have gotten used to a lot more comforting features of modern Reddit, Lemmy in both the users and in the software has more of a "Reddit 10-15 years ago" feel to it.
The biggest point is tankies and the toxic "left" people here and that Lemmy has some major problems regarding stability and the ability to effectively moderate.
Another point is that Lemmy has in may places worse moderation than reddit.
Yeah there are clearly some toxic people who won’t tolerate anything different than them. They can be leftists or rightists who are gonna hate you for whatever reason.
I didn’t have this feeling on reddit to be honest.
And it’s a shame because I’m censoring myself because of this on some subject where I could bring another point of view.
I haven't seen a single "right" person on Lemmy, except when you count the Stalinists as right (wich they kinda are)
And I hate that there are so many of them.
You can't say anything without people hating on you. I'm a actual social Democrat and therefore the worst enemy of tankies and Stalinists.
I don't care what they say about me, I care when they are in charge of anything and ban people for other opinions, wich happens a lot.
Lemmy has in may places worse moderation than reddit.
yet this is exactly what the fediverse was designed to work around. giving the power back to the users. when .ml decides to block a bunch of shit due to butt-hurt mods, communities can be moved elsewhere without everyone having to make new accounts.
sounds like a lot of conjecture to me. i think there is hope in groups owning, operating and funding their own instances. software platforms will get better over time. funding pathways will get better over time.
i dont think we should just toss our hands up and say 'nope, too hard. only jerks need apply'
I can conjecture some things, though I can't be 100% sure on either:
First, maybe it's fanatics/fanboys that don't like competition making their platform less relevant. Second, it's paid actors complaining. Third, it's robot accounts making posts. Fourth, as proposed in the OP, people are getting the wrong impression due to noisy and problematic bubbles. Fifth, people being scared of leaving their comfort zone. Sixth, a mix of either some or all the previous possibilities.
The higher-score comments there don't seem to be particularly hostile to Lemmy. They talk about legitimate concerns like whether Lemmy as it exists now could deal with a Reddit-size volume of data, The top comment at this time speaks favorably of !selfhosted@lemmy.world.
Of course people who are still using Reddit are more likely to view Reddit as favorable or acceptable and alternatives as problematic, or not quite there yet. I'm actively Fediverse-first in my use of social media, but I still end up on Reddit quite a bit for niche interests because that's where the most people are.
Number 1 comment is
Reddit ain't going anywhere fast.
If r/selfhosted has to rely on reddit as it can't be fucked selfhosting, what chance do other subs have.
I have found Lemmy selfhosted communities excellent, they are not a large as Reddit but there are plenty knowledgeable people, often seflhosting their own little reddit.
The irony of a self hosted community refusing to self host...
Honestly back during the API fiasco I was honestly expecting the mods their to make their own instance together. The fact they didn't blew me away
Lemmy has a toxic puddle problem. If your first experience with Lemmy is sauntering into a community and getting chased out for not agreeing with someone hard enough, something like that, you'll probably just go back to Reddit and say 'that place is full of whack jobs'.
And the default sort, kinda hard to dodge
It's very hard to convince people that fedi is a healthy place when the default servers are incredibly toxic. I wish they would at least advertise it as such, maybe hide the default from the number one spot. There are several servers up there that accept users that are way more chill.
Also for new selfhosters making it easier to say "these are some problem instances that are commonly blocked, if you want to start out with them". I know that starts a new problem of "but then who decides" and it causes more splintering, but for a lot of posters it's overwhelming the firehouse of vitriol that comes in at first.
Yeah whatever, that's a feature. Reddit became worse once it became a safe place for conservatives and center-right liberals to gather.
Conservative, TheDonald, KiA, red pill, et. all made Reddit worse.
I don't want a second Reddit. Can better avoid eternal September issues if they self select to fuck off
But I guess that's what .world is for.
A lot of communities on Lemmy have a 'scene kid' subculture and they will just harass people right off the platform for not being true enough to the cause, despite being for the cause.
You got a bunch of raindrops. They want to become a hurricane. They simply need a warm breeze but shit blows sideways instead. The corners of Lemmy where movements could be happening are basically mosh pits
I'm not trying to argue with you or correct you or anything, just pointing out why this is bad, how it shouldn't be as it is, but it's on deaf ears to the people I'm lamenting about. And you're correct, a 2nd Reddit would suck, but Lemmy could be better if those people were being better.
If there's anything anyone mad about anything in the world should know, by know, don't attack people on the same team, welcome them in
I actually blocked most of those groups but one was some climate community on another instance. There was a post where someone asked what they could do personally to help prevent climate change, and it was full of political theory as a response.
Someone said they actively boycott Starbucks because the CEO flies a jet in order to commute to Seattle to California, and if the government won't do anything they felt like the least they can do is just commit to never giving them and their lobbyists a single penny ever again.
And they were downvoted to like -20 and had a dozen people attacking them over shifting the blame from the corporations to the working class by framing it in such a way that the working class should have any responsibility for the actions of the corporation. It was like watching a bunch of picketers calling someone a scab.
And I'm just reading it like "what the fuck guys, you're sitting around discussing political strategies that have so far done absolutely nothing, they're doing something, they have a point, the lobbyists make the laws, so defunding the lobbyists does make a lot of sense. He's flying in a jet to work because people give him money, helllLLLOOOooo."
Someone even went so far as to argue that a lot of people need to go to Starbucks because they might need a quiet space to study or hang out, so I jumped in pointing out that most municipalities have a library at the minimum, and people were fine before coffee shops were everywhere, and I got downvoted and jumped on by half a dozen people for not understanding the plight of others.
Homeless people need somewhere to go, so I'm an asshole for suggesting that other people could go to Starbucks less? Beats the hell out of me
In some climate forum, for no reason other than to win a stupid internet argument over the responsibility of emissions, everyone began defending the necessity of Starbucks of all things. Seriously. And at the same time, consumers shouldn't have to endure hardships for the climate because they should instead focus on affecting policy, in order for places like Starbucks to change, because they're fucking horrible. In my mind I was just like "well are corporations good or bad, or at the moment are they just convenient as both in order to use that person as a punching bag?" but noped right out.
It was basically a rat's nest of tangled up incongruent statements that all led back to 'fuck that person for saying they make a very small effort to do something towards a corporation as opposed to attempting to reshape politics'
So yeah, shit like that.
Maybe a simple "while I disagree with A due to B, it does have some merit because of C. But in my opinion I think D is more effective, and if you'd like to learn more about D, here are some resources! :)"
I'd argue that at this point, sticking to the collective vs individual dichotomy of climate attribution and action potential is climate action delayist. When your argument relies you or your group intentionally doing absolutely nothing to combat climate change, you don't really have climate change in mind.
Leftism sometimes cares more about class than its very foundation, the environment, to understand why there is a problem with blame-shifting.
I've seen this in a similar fashion in relationship advice forums: Commenters not engaging with the issue or person, but knee-jerk reacting with advising instant breakup.
What do you expect from a bunch of lazy T_D chuds, bots, and n00bz
Ha haaaa! Right? Up top!
Besides other factors mentioned in this thread, there's also
Older userbase makes this place a lot more useful, outside of politcs and news subs you are dealing with who can provide good information, ie how reddit used to work.
Drama has its place... it is provocative and it gets people going... we need more engagement! We are deff getting there too, meme subs were spamming all 1 year ago, now there is enough threads to keep a reader busy without fluff memes.
I agree with you that both things have their upsides; and frankly, I don't even think that we should be pandering to the immigration leftover wallowing in Reddit. Growth is good, but growth should never come at the expense of the community that you're trying to grow.
However I feel like those points help to explain why the "lol lmao" crowds hate this place.
I would never support banish anyone, just to be clear. I know that sentiment is popular around here and reddit.
Everyone within reason should be able to express themselves here that's entire point of fediverse being the front page of the internet, a proper one!
Younger folk do seem to self select out of place that won't an echo chamber but that ain't a young folk thing..
Just check politics on lemmy.world 🤡
Speaking from a third-world country, there are 2 main weaknesses the fediverse has for us:
There used to be a mexican instance called Mujico, but they were forced to use a whitelist by constant troll attacks... But they also federated with grad so I can't feel bad about it. I don't know if it still exists but the last time I checked it had zero activity.
I am pretty sure most people are here for idealogical reasons so lack of things is a nothing burger for them.
Normies only care about ease of use and network effect. Until fediverse brings usability, we aint even compete for the network.
Normie here, Lemmy is pretty easy to use imo. I think the transition is happening now kinda like the Internet in the 90s or online dating in the 10's.
Ofc I just got here and I'm using Voyager.
A theory I have is that everyone who hates reddit eventually left leaving the milk bags brains. I was mod of r/mapporncirclejerk and left when I saw my mod queue get exponentially worse. My friend told me it was because the decent people left for Lemmy.
Now I'm mod of !cartographyanarchy@lemm.ee and it's sooooo much easier.
Idk I find Lemmy easier to use. I go to Lemmy site -> I use site
I go to reddit -> I get asked to turn of my VPN -> get asked to login -> get asked to download mobile app -> accept cookies -> I finally use site.
Damn reddit is so much easier
-> I get asked to turn of my VPN ->
Yes 🐸
secondary reason why i left reddit, they don't respect a person who respects him or her self... not long after i learned that's corpo's MO and that's how i become radicalized linux enjoyer haha
Almost everyone in the linked Reddit post seems to be supportive of Lemmy, or even Lemmy users. Even the people who tried it and stopped seem generally warm to the idea and just think it needs polish.
I'd say that this comment section is way more vitriolic than that one lol
That was the first instance out there, so amany early adopter communities are hosted there. I've blocked a handful problematic users and all the communist stuff and other topics I don't agree with or care about, but by and large it's alright.
Hexbear.net and lemmygrad.ml are instances I've blocked altogether.
For some reason after reading this (because I'm very new to Lemmy), your post made me feel like that squiggly thing / slime inside the box that wanted freedom, then the moment it takes a step outside, got punched back in and now is happily being inside the box, even if its cramped.
I think it was a meme too.
Yeah, but I do feel that way (after taking a look there)
It is. Go into your account settings -> blocks and at the bottom is a section for blocking instances.
I've got Lemmy.ml in there. You'll still see comments from their users and posts from users in other communities but you shouldn't see any of their communities in your feed.
100%. That's why it took me until the end of June to join Lemmy even though the blackout was on June 12th.
And I was already hating Reddit before the blackout. But FOMO made me stay and I feel bad about it.
I mean, read the post? They explain themselves pretty well there. Or are you linking it with hopes we'll brigade or something?
Lemmy hate comes down to two or three things: they don't like communists, or they're confused by it. Or they're waiting for it to be bigger.
I mean that's basically the crux of it. That, and some moderation drama, and the software being very buggy a year ago giving people a bad first impression, and Lemmy still being susceptible to spam.
It'll take some time before Lemmy (and the Threadiverse as a whole) improves its reputation and moves on from the "it's a tankie website" take. That said, a lot of people in that thread are making the case for Lemmy, so it's mostly just people worried it's not as popular.
The last 2 reddit userbase diasporas were wildly more different than all of the previous ones combined.
When voat became a thing everyone already knew ahead of time that it's ranks would be filled with facists; but it took a while for lemmy to earn its tankie stereotype and I'm also glad that lemmy's design helps ensure that it'll have more stamina that voat or any of the other reddit user digital refugee camp platforms that came before it.
I definitely avoided Lemmy the first go-round with the API fuckery because it seemed from the outside like basically just a tankie protest Reddit in a similar way to how Voat was just a neo-Nazi protest Reddit. To the Lemmy devs' absolute credit, they don't push new users toward any of those, though.
I thought one day after having had a Mastodon for some time that I might not have given Lemmy a fair shake, so I went back and ended up finding that most instances are basically normal Reddit fare but honestly less shitty than Reddit proper (there's a trade-off that posts are less frequent and that small, niche communities can attract unwanted attention by having their posts almost immediately show up in 'all').
Fediverse
Likewise the heroic nerds of the Threadiverse coined the term months before Threads was even announced, and they would be hard pressed to give it up to some scumbag billionaire.
It's an epic culture war being fought by largerly agreeing parties.
i agree. bending over for people butthurt about meta seems like a great way to limit your market artificially.
then again, i named my public instance moist