Right wingers voted for the Republicans who are now attempting a fascist coup.

I'm done trying to make friends with people who want to erase me and my friends/family

Idk what to tell you

Love how the point of the post is “hey try to be nice” and everyone sounding off in the comments like “FUCK YOU AND FUCK THOSE SPECIFIC GUYS TOO”

Maybe more people should just post their reviews of vacuums here

It makes them feel validated, they're not capable of self reflection

From my experience it hurts more than helps to engage with fascists/right wingers because you give them a platform.

Multiple accounts are a must!

...or so I've been told

It’s not about tolerance imo, it’s about discussion. You’d be surprised to learn their reasoning if you actually listened to it. You don’t have to agree with it.

Both sides have this problem right now. Both only converse with their own. Why are republicans not changing? Well if their friends, family and everyone they talk to is a republican, they’ll never be exposed to different opinions.

Don’t forget that both sides can have valid policies depending on how you view the world. I’m not taking about trump and whatever you people are doing out there in the US, but in general, conservatism is the idea that people will manage their money, rather than the government.

Look at Quebec for example. A very socialist government. 2 years ago they invested a ton of money into one electric bus company. Well that company failed really bad and while they aren’t completely bankrupt, they aren’t far. It’s easy then to then see why conservatives would want to vote conservative. If their money had stayed in their pocket instead of going to the government, this wouldn’t have happened.

Same thing with health. The public health system is currently clogged up so a lot of people end up having to pay to go to the private sector to actually get cured in time. So conservatives believe this whole system is a huge waste of taxpayer money. Most conservatives I know aren’t agaisnt the government helping with that, but they’d rather the government just pay the invoice after you went to a private clinic, similar to insurance in the states, rather than try to control a system that clearly isn’t working.

Honestly if anyone is doing that I really feel like it would be the US, not Russia.

Russia's goal is to sew discord and unballance the populace that drives politics, and for that to work you need a MASSIVE scale that we just don't really have. They don't really have much to gain from the IP addresses of a handful of leftists

But Lemmy is exactly the kind of hotspot for people DEEPLY angry about the government of the US to organize that if we're big enough to be on their radar, the US government would have a vested interest in keeping an eye on potential dissidents. Unlike Russia IP addresses and personally identifiable information would be useful to them, in identifying threat actors, tracking their activity and volatility online, and building cases that would allow them to prosecute should said dissidents escalate

That's how it looks from where I'm standing anyway 🤷‍♂️

I could be wrong but to me it feels odd to think lemmy is big enough to be worth organizing psyops for.

Not to say it couldn't be an issue in the future, but it feels much more likely that people expressing pro Russia sentiment are just people who bought into that particular brand of propaganda.

Which like, to some extent all of our individual world views are shaped by the environment of propaganda we're exposed to. We're all products of our social conditioning, and ultimately that's exactly what propaganda is. Media designed to socially condition people to a certain set of beliefs. All we as individuals can do is be aware of it and be willing to look at our own beliefs critically.

But at the end of the day I think the folks praising Russia on lemmy are just people. People I personally think are misguided, but I don't think theyre generally acting in bad faith any more than the general population here.

Well do you?

Also I meant in general. Those types of posts and comments are highly upvoted in here.

I can understand your anger, I'm in the same boat, but I really wasn't asking you to do that 🙁 I was asking you to be kind to the people here. That you share this space with.

I wish I had left this list of examples in the original post where I had them at first

• Compliment people's art and ask about their process
• Teach people about something you're knowledgeable on
• Give constructive criticism on peoples projects when it's welcome
• Thank people for posting things you're glad you got to see, tell them you enjoyed it
• Tell people you're glad they're here
• Tell people you hope they have a good day

I moved them to a comment because I have a bad habit of being really long winded and I wanted people to actually read the whole post, but I think moving them and leaving "try to approach people you disagree with with curiosity rather than hostility" prompted a lot of folks to interpret what I was saying as "tell the Nazis who want to debate your humanity that all their views are swell, actually"

What I meant is exactly what didn't happen in our interaction with eachother. I'm a queer leftist whose humanity is debated by the right. You don't completely agree with me and that's okay, but I'm not deserving of your hostility.

We may not see things exactly the same way but I care just as much about combating fascism as you do; everyone I love save for some of my family is a minority with a target on their back in the eyes of the current administration.

I wish I could have made it more clear what I meant. I've gotten lots of comments more or less insinuating that I'm encouraging we all complicit in the rise of fascism. And it's not a big percentage, but I'm still a human being who hears 12 people forcefully telling me that, and it doesn't feel great.

That's not what I'm advocating. I'm advocating that when you don't completely see eye to eye with someone, you ask them what they mean (and also lots of other things, like giving compliments and telling folks you appreciate their post, etc. etc. ect., but I feel like how to handle disagreement is the specific idea in question).

WE don't see exactly eye to eye. You and other commenters here don't see exactly eye to eye. And that's okay. Being willing to talk with them or me about what they think and why doesn't help the Nazis.

(Like I said I'm really long winded 🙃 sorry for the wall of text, I know it's not even the first one I've replied with to you specifically 😅)

Completely right OP, and this is worth repeating as MUCH as possible. More than almost any UX or intake changes, Fediverse will only grow if their experience of the community is good.

Unfortunately, some people have never caught a vibe in their life and it shows lol. A single person with a bad attitude can completely tank your experience in a small community, versus a 20,000 person subreddit where usernames are basically indistinguishable.

I arrived at LEMMY after what I think we very optimistically called the Reddit Collapse. We wish. And I had toe in LEMMY and a few others at Reddit.

Recently with their abusively patronizing redesigning and gamification and just ugly bullshit, I can’t stomach Reddit at all. So LEMMY grows increasingly important, not just to me but to folks who haven’t yet even heard of it.

So, I’ll just say thanks for your post here. I have, I confess, engaged with a couple bullies on LEMMY and I always try to say… I don’t like to do this on LEMMY— and I say that precisely for the reasons you mention.

And as you encourage: I will try to be kinder, even in when feeling… hmm… less than kind.

It's specifically the "don't call people Russian trolls/bots"

There are a lot of Right wingers sympathetic to fascist countries right now, and it doesn't matter if it's a troll farm or a regular person pushing hateful ideology it's harmful and unacceptable either way.

I 1000% agree, the design of the space we inhabit shapes our behaviour.

I don't think collectively we can stop at intentionally being kind, but forming a coherent design vision to effectively shape human behaviour and social outcomes as a community project is HARD and legitimately takes an actual vision and understanding of incredibly advanced design cobcepts very few have the experience to have any realy expertise in. Still important, but I think this is an easy way everyone can contribute. Similar to making donations.

They're not the only things we need, but they're a small thing that becomes valuable when the culture decides we collectively prioritize them.

You couldn't possibly be more right though. Erin kissane has talked a fair bit about that idea in her research. If there are specific design features of Lemmy you wish were different I'd be curious to see discussion posts on this comm about how we can design a space that facilitates more compassionate interactions and healthier community! (Or just to hear about them from you if they're not fully formed enough yet to post about 😀

If we keep letting Nazis into the bar it becomes a Nazi bar

This is a good principle to learn as to not accidentally validate people with invalid worldviews.

en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Nazi_…

Personally I don't see calling people Russian bots/trolls or accepting harmful behaviour as the only available options.

I don't think the former is at all productive or helps anything, and the latter is completely unacceptable. But those aren't our only options when we decide how we want to engage with people we disagree with

and again, fascists are not the only people with whom disagreements happen on lemmy. We're literally disagreeing right now, if you called me a Russian bot I think that would be silly and unproductive. That's literally my whole point. Not everyone you disagree with is arguing in bad faith 🤷‍♂️

I'm very familiar with and agree with the Nazi bar metaphor, and said as much in one of my very first comments I made in the discussion under this post. At no point have I advocated letting Lemmy be a Nazi bar. And we don't exactly have many fascists here compared to other platforms, Lemmy is almost exclusively leftists.

Being kind to your fellow lemmites is not making this platform a Nazi safe haven, it just makes it a social space actually worth spending time in.

I don’t think collectively we can stop at intentionally being kind, but forming a coherent design vision to effectively shape human behaviour and social outcomes as a community project is HARD and legitimately takes an actual vision and understanding of incredibly advanced design cobcepts very few have the experience to have any realy expertise in.

Yeah if you want to get a PHD in this stuff, but you could also just become friends with a bunch of artists and ask them how they like this place, and notice how they talk about it feeling free and vibrant or dead and dying.

By the way, we are already doing this work and it barely feels like we are... because the work is a basic product of the world views, shared values and shared explicit ideological and practical goals of this community space.

You don't need this crazy apparatus to make this place a vibrant garden, having expert gardeners is definitely helpful, but it is about getting out of the way of kindness and empowering kindness, not coming up with some grand unified strategy to manipulate people into being better humans.

Basic things like the way a lot of Mastodon instances don't by default prioritize showing the precise number of likes a post has add up to a significant difference in how healthy a social network is for the people in it. You can encourage people to obsess over unhealthy aspects to communication by making the numbers front and center, encouraging people to associate popularity and self worth with those numbers, and creating situations where everybody has to become an expert in gaming getting the best numbers possible even in the realm of their personal life (or so we are made to feel).... or you can de-emphasize the numbers and make it a thing people can check if they want to, but the UI and general philosophy of the place doesn't really encourage or worship that kind of thinking in the first place so why bother?

The reason it feels weird not to have numbers quantifying how successful a social media post/piece of content is that the people who designed these systems were programmers not artists, they didn't understand the incredible farce that attaching the atoms of communication in a community with direct quantification is... would immediately lead to unhealthy environments, they just saw it as the easiest way to make money and identify who the valuable influencers to pay to do ads are.

I totally agree with your message.

These days everyone who is not ultra-left easily gets labelled as Nazi, similarly everyone who brings up any rather left argument will be called a woke snowflake.

Thus, any dialog is immediately shut down. Listen, understand, exchange arguments.

That is what unites everyone who believes in liberal values.

The thing in this post about curiosity isn't just a lemmy/online thing.

The vast majority of people are mainly interested in themselves. Like - if you have trouble on dates, making friends, getting along at work, anything to do with people in general - approaching them with a sense of sincere curiosity will completely change things overnight.

Get people to talk about themselves, be supportive in your discussions with them, and shut the fuck up wherever possible and suddenly you're interesting, a good person, kind, whatever - traits you've done exactly fuck all to demonstrate, but that people will swear are true because you seem interested in them.

It's fucking bonkers but it's true. Curiosity can change your world.

@Cris_Color@lemmy.world being nice helps establish the "tone", but I'm not sure that wouldn't change with another "API event" on Reddit that results in another, larger mass migration.

Another suggestion I have for college graduates is to ask your alma mater if they are going to start using something other than commercial social to engage with alumni.

Most universities don't want to make mistakes investing in the bleeding edge, but they are quick to follow. When a few schools do something, many more quickly copy that. They are also looking for low cost wins. Their engagement numbers are already telling them that Xwiiter no longer works to reach alumni or potential students.

If even a handful of alumni suggest a change at the right time, that is often enough to get them to give federated social a try.

That is when the less toxic "tone" really helps.

That took my brain a hot minute to process lol. Is that actually from something or did you just invent it on the spot? 😅

"I am filled with fear and tormented with terrible visions of pain. Everywhere people are hurting one another, the planet is rampant with injustices, whole societies plunder groups of their own people, mothers imprison sons, children perish while brothers war. O, woe."

"But nobody wants it! Everybody hates it.

"OH. WELL, THEN STOP.

Unironically wisdom we should all learn from. I can't stop for other people but I can at least choose how I act, and whether I contribute to that pain suffering and discord.

Nazis can always join their own defederated server and have their little circle jerk, nothing is stopping them from going and joining exploding heads; they don't have a right to be part of federated fediverse and have their bullshit heard.

For that matter, nothing's stopping the people who disagree with me from creating their own nazi-friendly Lemmy instance. This is not the Nazi bar, and it's not going to be, so go ahead and open it yourselves. No need to let me know how it turns out, I'm pretty sure I've got a good guess.