For all my English reading FedeFriends, here is Part 1 of my Case For Fediverse As An Environment For (Not Only) Polish Social Sector.
Machine translator at deepl.com is doing great job and now I feel I can start publishing in English again without doubling my writing time 😀


Better network infrastructure for the social sector.
Communication, information and cooperation under social control.
Technical interoperability for social interoperability.

Part one:
How oligopolistic corpomedia works (using Facebook as an example)
and why the social sector needs to take action to create its own social networking
space.
Also how Fediverse works and why it is a better environment for social initiatives.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
CC-BY-SA Petros Polonos & The Society For Mutual Aid

Your feedback will be appreciated as always. If you think this work can be useful as an educational aid, I will gladly make any adjustment you'd suggest and may it help others.

tepewu.pl/wp-content/uploads/s…

!Towarzystwo Pomocy Wzajemnej !Informacja techniczna Fediwersum !Fediverse

#fediverse #community #networking #education #advocacy #interoperability

in reply to Petros Kanenas Outis Polonos

Good material. Here's some random thoughts to ponder on.
- Federation means that there is no "Fediverse view": what you see very much depend on where you connect, and you may miss stuff by using a wrong place
- Federation also mean there is no "global public stream", you can't "post fo the world": nobody will notice it
- Facebook algorithm handles huge amounts of information, sort it, order it, filter it and present to the people. Fediverse does not apply such things. It means, however, that people would choke and die when the amount of information grows exponentially, since they have to do all the algorithmic processing manually, wasting their time. Fediverse can handle a few hundred connections with low amount of traffic, it cannot handle multiple thousands of connections all generating dozens of posts daily, especially in extended length.
- Facebook is much more like Diaspora* or Friendica and very much less than Mastodon; Mastodon (and basic AP) is Twitter, not Facebook.
- People want and need the tight integration of various Facebook services: posts, reactions, comments, polls, groups, pages, chat, address book; they are all in once place, using the same data backend. In fediworld all services exist bu they are not interconnected, they are not integrate well and most of them have separate interfaces.
- There are limits how much abuse the Fediverse can handle. Imagine 10% of Facebook users start doing what they do there, posting harrassment, porn, life threats, terrorist propaganda, whatever. It sounds simple that facebook filtering is evil, but it is easy until you are firmly asked by the police to do something, or else. The life under the radar is very different from the life under the spotlights.
- It is still an open question how fediverse could handle, say, 200 million active users. My guesses aren't quite optimistic. Think of celebs with many hundred thousands of followers and the tracffic they generate. Multiply by many.
- I believe FB was right to fight back the australians thinking that they can take money from a rich enough private company just because.
in reply to grin

@grin

Ok, by the numbers. 😀

1. Yes.

2. Well, your "village" will and someone may decide to share it with their friends, who would share it with theirs and so on.

3. Actually not, because of #1 & #2 -- my exposition to external news is limited and filtered through people who share content. So my contacts (on the mutual basis) are my content curators.

4. I would rather think that users are not interested in back-end. Front-end integration is what an average user experience. As for having it or not, there are platforms that are designed for it (#hubzilla and, while crudely, #friendica) and those that are not. And people choose according to their diversity of needs.

5. You sound vague here. In #fediverse, the abuse and inappropriate content is handled at the instance level. Rules are defined and enforced there. If an instance is perceived (by others) as a regular and intentional source of inappropriate content, it simply gets ostracized through blacklisting. Police-wise, it only concerns the instance, where the content is generated. No central choke point, no problem.

6. The question is open indeed, and interesting. I hope to live long enough to see it becoming a practical problem. As for now, do not think it will, for three reasons:

6.1. The majority of users will still be happy with centralized and AI-driven media. Simply because of carefully crafted habit/addiction.

6.2. I do not expect celebrities to be very much into fediverse, exactly because it is not suitable for their kind of PR.

6.3. Finally, my frame of reference assumes that we are experiencing the All-crisis and within next decade or two we will see Internet "Balkanized". Even having 200 million users will then mean that they will mostly communicate in local/regional clusters, with global communication ratio dropping.

This is, BTW, the reason why I am also working on various topics related to #NetCommons and low-power/low-speed networking for local communities.

999. I respect your perspective, even if I do not share it.

in reply to Petros Kanenas Outis Polonos

@Petros Kanenas Outis Polonos Thanks for the reply. I try to react.

2. My problem is the huge gap between theory and practice. In theory the mass of people re-share stuff and it become "global", while in practice people only echo their opinion #bubbles which leads to more segmentation, not less. #Global streams would have the positive effect of multitude points of views.

3. Yes, the question is moot when there is no way to pull information, only to subscribe and wait for it to be "pushed" (while I know the pull/push analogy isn't true, but the results are like that). If there was a way to follow thousands of people it became a problem. (Happened to me on #Diaspora where some people were moderate in the beginning then they started to push dozens of posts daily. I had to unsubscribe, since there was no way to auto-prioritise them.)

4. That is, again, just the theory of possibility. There is no such #UI existing, and most of the "AP" services aren't pure AP, and they need specific UI features. I do not see any system trying to get them together. Users can't use a system planned to be started to be written in the non-specific future. The system is capable but it's not been done anywhere.

5. This does not work in reality and does not scale in practice. Admins have different thresholds of rejection and different speed of reaction, and instance admins don't have the granularity to handle this: they either accept high level of abuse or reject whole instances with huge amounts of users. Apart from that there are no useful admin tools or coordination around despite the network exists for quite long time now.

6.1 You are biased against #Facebook and this makes you ignore the possibility that people actually find the feature useful. Automatic filtering and prioritising is not a demon to be killed, indeed it's being used in open systems all the time. (My peertube would be filled to the rim with porn and fake news without it.) Trending_whatever is the same "AI", used even in mastodon.

6.2 This is a limited viewpoint. #Celebs need viewers and when there are enough people they start using a service. When paid services are expensive for them or they get restricted (like maximal hits or traffic amount) they may move over somewhere else.
What is true, however, that they actually earn money from the business structure of those services provided by these companies, and they are not incentivised to do it for free, unless there's some feasible micropayment connected to it. There exists no such thing as of now, and the "not so feasible" payment operators are closed source and scattered all over.

6.3 I respect your perspective, even if I do not share it. 😉
But indeed local/regional communities will became more and more important. It's just AP does not seem to be the fitting format for it.

in reply to Petros Kanenas Outis Polonos

It seems everyone critically underestimates the importance of UI design.
Open source is often not worse, it just looks worse.

There is a point in gathering money for people to
1. find the fitting technology
2. integrate them
3. create an attractive, easy to use, featureful UI [to replace whatever $$$ service you want to]

I run plenty of public services and I am not satisfied with their UI. Most of them was designed by programmers, not UI designers, graphics people, usability experts. It shows. I still gladly provide the resources to make them running but without the pleasurable UI they will never attract the masses. It is wrong to think people use Facebook only to purposefully enslave themselves: it is a carefully designed, and redesigned, mainly usability driven interface. They waste huge amounts of wealth to design it that way, and indeed: it's a good method to keep their users.

That is my theory.

in reply to Nanook

@Robert Dinse
I should probably rephrase it as community control, which is the case in fediverse -- instance community controls it (supposedly).
So it is not communism, it is communalism. And of course every community can rule themselves as they wish, be it communist, anarchist, tribal, monarchist -- whatever.

Thank you for pointing it out -- I will change phrasing in the source document.

Unknown parent

friendica - Link to source

Petros Kanenas Outis Polonos

@grin @Robert Dinse

In his 1875 writing, Critique of the Gotha Program, Marx summarized the communist philosophy in this way: “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.” By contrast, socialism is based on the idea that people will be compensated based on their level of individual contribution to the economy.

More or less that's it.
Another aspect is the state. There is a serious chasm between statist communists or socialists and anarcho-communists or libertarian socialists.

So, as a very imprecise map looks like this:

Assuming of course that we agree on the definition of state, being involuntary association, based on monopoly of violence.

And usually most fights go about differences in definitions.

in reply to Petros Kanenas Outis Polonos

It is difficult for me to fathom how ANYONE can have a sense of ethics that makes them feel it is OKAY to steel the fruits of another persons labor. It is difficult for me to fathom the need for some people to want to control everyone else with "government". It is difficult for me to believe that someone would believe a system of government to allocate resources is something that could or would possibly work better than a natural system, especially given how incompetently government handles basically everything and always has throughout human history. I don't want to be the subject of human organ harvesting as is taking place in communist China. Hard to fathom that others are okay with that. I don't want a system where you can't even express your opinion as is the case in most communistic countries. Why would ANYONE find this desirable? Communism is to end human progress. I do not understand people with no desire to progress. I do not understand people who have no desire for self-determinism. In a Communist situation, government tells you what you will produce, of what quality and quantity, and even if you have zero aptitude or interest you have no choice. In a capitalistic situation, if what you are interested in has no human need, then you may still have no choice, but if there is a market, you can pursue it, and you can aim for cheap low quality mass production if that's the niche you want to service, or you can go with high quality well crafted products if you prefer. I like having that choice, both as a consumer and a producer.
in reply to Petros Kanenas Outis Polonos

About stealing fruits of one's work, I guess Jeff Bezos is quite competent source of inspiration. As for the freedom in capitalism, it would not last a month without states enforcing laws and protecting private ownership of capital. Also let me inform you that China ceased to be a communist state some 20 years ago if not earlier.
This entry was edited (4 years ago)
in reply to Petros Kanenas Outis Polonos

@Petros Kanenas Outis Polonos It's true, for a time you will. BUT and here is the difference between Communism and Capitalism, in Capitalism, I DO NOT HAVE TO BUY from Jeff Bezos nor do I have to work for him, IN COMMUNISM YOU HAVE NO CHOICE. Elon Musk is advancing mankind, making space access more affordable and if human civilization is to continue into the future we need this.
in reply to Petros Kanenas Outis Polonos

@Petros Kanenas Outis Polonos You can't be communist without being statist because it is the State that distributes wealth in Communism. So if you're not pro-communist and you're anti-capitalist, what is left? And this is a real question because I do feel there is a need for a NEW economic model, especially when you consider AI entering the picture. But I know communism fails outright, capitalism kind of limps along.