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kixik via Linux lemmy (AP)

Phoronix: Several Linux Kernel Driver Maintainers Removed Due To Their Association To Russia

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Nanook friendica
This is a shame, I always thought Linux was supposed to be an International collaboration, hate to see it caught up in this bullshit political agenda.
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Does invading your neighbor count as international collaboration? Not that all Russian people can be held directly responsible for the actions of their government.
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Nanook friendica
@theunknownmuncher The US has been involved in probably 300 regime changes throughout the world, has invaded many countries, including those that we were not affiliated with. Russia invades a neighboring country when we install a leader that is going to allow us to put missiles on their border. I really hate to see political hegemony get in the way of a good collaborative effort, we all suffer for it if we allow this.
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The US has been involved in probably 300 regime changes throughout the world, has invaded many countries, including those that we were not affiliated with.


Absolutely fair point. I agree with you on this portion of your comment.

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Nanook friendica
@theunknownmuncher And I could give countless other examples of other countries. I don't agree with the war, but I also know if we hadn't installed Zelenskyy and if the United States had honored our promise to Russia not to extend NATO past East Germany, then it would not have happened. So I understand that it is hardly one sided on Russias part. If we didn't fund Ukraine, if we didn't offer them membership in NATO, none of this would have happened. And I'll add if the Ukraine and Russia did not have large oil reserves and some other precious minerals, the United States would be a lot less interested in them. But that's all in the past. Now, you and I can disagree with each other and we can disagree with what our governments do, but if we want to build a better world it has to happen through the cooperative efforts of citizens NOT governments because the latter just historically a lot less likely to happen. So I can't see this move as at all productive towards ending this particular war or world peace in general, I see it as quite the opposite.
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Wait, what?? Zelenskyy took office after being democratically elected in 2019. Russia invaded Ukraine and annexed the Crimea region of Ukraine in 2014. Your timeline does not check out there.
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Nanook friendica
@theunknownmuncher Your timeline doesn't go back far enough and I notice you completely ignored the bit about Eastern expansion of NATO and what the United States promised Russia.
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Your justification of genocide is both ludicrous and gross.
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Nanook friendica
@theunknownmuncher I don't justify genocide, I acknowledge ALL conflicts involve at least two sides, and to punish only one of those sides is to take part in said genocide rather than oppose it.
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ALL conflicts involve at least two sides


Okay then, so describe the 2 sides and the punishments they deserved during the Nazi Germany invasion of Poland/Europe and the holocaust. I hate to bring Nazis into it as an argument, but you did say "ALL" and it easily shows how ridiculous that take is.

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Nanook friendica

@theunknownmuncher Suggest you research the German economy at the time, who was controlling it, the relationship between Ashkanazi's and Jews and Germany for starters. Without understanding those complexities there is no way to understand that whole situation. Look into the history of the Rothchilds as it relates to all of this. This video at least provides some background: bitchute.com/video/1gWU5DaITVh…

Note: I mis-wrote Russian when I meant to say German. That said my original statement that all conflicts involve two parties doesn't dismiss the occasional psychopath as being one of those parties.

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Shoreline, WA, USA
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theunknownmuncher lemmy (AP)
Big yikes!!!!
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drwankingstein lemmy (AP)

Nazi germany came into being a thing because post great war was massively hard on germans in large part to the treaty of versailles completely crippling germany's economy.

ofc there were other factors like the massive propaganda machine, Germany was effectively reduced to a slave state dealt a massive blow to the pride of the german populace which was fairly easy to turn young men militant alone, even disregarding the disastrous effects to the German economy.

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Nanook friendica
@drwankingstein @theunknownmuncher That being the case why did Rockefeller fund BOTH sides of the conflict? It's true it had bad effects on the economy but it wasn't the only thing that had bad effects on the economy, you need to go back about 800 years to get to the roots of that.
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beleza pura lemmy (AP)

there is simply no meaningful response to this

no matter whether you think russia is justified in invading ukraine or not, if russians get banned from the kernel bc russia invaded ukraine, yankees have to get the boot as well

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Nanook friendica
@beleza pura I'd agree, but on this same basis with all the conflicts in the world you'd have to expand this to about 99% of the globe.
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beleza pura lemmy (AP)

YUP

so... maybe nobody should be banned and it sucks that this happened?

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Nanook friendica
@beleza pura That would be my take. My take is that as individuals we are were international cooperation needs to begin, it isn't going to happen with our governments, at least it never has historically.
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theunknownmuncher lemmy (AP)
if russians get banned from the kernel bc russia invaded ukraine


You should read the article because this is not a thing that has occurred, at least not yet.

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beleza pura lemmy (AP)

my understanding was that the kernel didn't publicly state any specific reason, but "complying to sanctions" semms like a safe bet to me

in any case, whatever the reason, this removal is unfortunate and uncalled for

This entry was edited (1 hour ago)
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lily33 lemmy (AP)

I'm sure removing these maintainers would be of great help to the Ukrainian war effort...

More seriously: We need to help Ukraine more. But this doesn't do that. It just hurts a bunch of people (both the maintainers, and the people using their code) for no benefit whatsoever.

This entry was edited (1 hour ago)
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Nanook friendica
@lily33 @theunknownmuncher The best way we can help Ukraine is by removing outside influences from both sides. What is being portrayed as a war in Ukraine is really a proxy war between Russia and the US that was egged on by the US. This is most unwise given that both nations are armed to the teeth with nukes. We really should be looking at ways to de-escalate not escalate this war.
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theunknownmuncher lemmy (AP)

100% agree with you! Like I said, I don't think we can hold all Russian people directly responsible for the actions of their government.

I wish for an ideal world where politics could stay out of Linux, but this is extremely tricky and cannot be treated black and white. Labeling things as "political" and then crying to keep "politics" out of things is often used as a weapon for exclusion, for example by sexuality or race, and I think exclusion should be anathema for Linux and open source projects.

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The biggest help the west could've done for Ukraine was to fuck off when the Istanbul negotiations were happening two months into the war.
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You do realize that the US has invaded far more countries than Russia has, do burgerlanders have no self awareness at all?
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@☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ @theunknownmuncher I am in the US and I realize this. There was a funny meme a while back about look how aggressive Russia is, they put their country all around our military bases. Unfortunately there is a lot of truth in that. What other country has military bases throughout the world?
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communism lemmy (AP)
Aside from the fact that it's pretty insane to suggest to kick someone off a project for no reason other than their nationality (the article doesn't say any of these maintainers supported the invasion or had any ties with the government), even if these people actively supported the government, as far as kernel development is concerned... I don't really care? If their contributions are good then I want their patches to be merged. Tor was made by the US government, which I in no way condone, but I still use Tor.
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cm0002 lemmy (AP)

"propaganda"? Oh. You mean like Russia started a full blown unprovoked war with a peaceful nation? That "propaganda"?

Sucks others got caught in the crosshairs, but that's just what happens when your authoritarian government launches unprovoked wars and gets sanctioned.

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davel lemmy (AP)
No matter how many times Western states and corporate media insist that it wasn’t provoked won’t change the fact that it was[1][2].
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Midnight lemmy (AP)
Political agenda is a funny euphemism for imperialist invasion and genocide.
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Nanook friendica
@Midnight If Russia were the only one involved, and if weren't provoked by outside powers like say, oh, the United States, yea I could agree with you but my knowledge of history precludes my accepting that explanation.
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CaptDust lemmy (AP)
🥱
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davel lemmy (AP)

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CaptDust lemmy (AP)

NATO will continue expanding as more and more border countries don't want to deal with limp dick Putin. Russia will be broken up to small territories and anything that remains of the federation will be scrapped and sold for salvage to finance rebuilding what has been lost.

Ta-ta!

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Nanook friendica
@CaptDust @davel When you need to resort to insults like this it's a clear sign you've lost the argument.
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davel lemmy (AP)
Not always, but often 😂
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davel lemmy (AP)

That is what the US has wanted for the last 25 years, but it’s unlikely to happen. The Global North has very significantly de-industrialized itself, and its attempts at sanctions not only haven’t worked, but are having the effect of it isolating itself from the global majority. Russia has aligned with the Global South. Hence BRICS+ and the larger developing multipolar bloc that’s going its own way, ignoring the US’ “rules-based international order” sanctions, developing its own international balance of payments outside of US dollar hegemony, and working to get out from under the boot of the IMF’s & World Bank’s debt traps.

the federation will be scrapped and sold for salvage


The neocolonial plunderers already tried that, and they even got away with under Yeltsin, but then Putin kicked them out, which is why they’re especially butthurt about him.

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Samueru lemmy (AP)

Holy shit I didn't know admins in this place were full blown Russian lickers. I don't know about you but I would gladly have my country join nato if that means not ending up like Georgia or now Ukraine twice.

Also congrats on getting Finland to finally join nato btw.

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davel lemmy (AP)
Cool, maybe the US will blow up its new ally’s pipelines too someday. We are not a trustworthy ally.
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theunknownmuncher lemmy (AP)
Right??? They act like they are concerned about what events could have taken place to ensure that the invasion never happened. Guess what could have occurred that would have been the biggest guarantee that the invasion could never happen? Ukraine joining NATO prior to the invasion....
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Nanook friendica

@theunknownmuncher @Samueru Like Russia placing nukes in Cuba guaranteed we wouldn't invade it?

The thing about not being willing to learn from history is that you are then destined to repeat the same mistakes.

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Nanook friendica
@Samueru @davel Is there something about people from lemmy.ml that makes them only capable of insults as opposed to rational discussions?
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Samueru lemmy (AP)
What rational discussion is to be had when one country is clearly annexing another since 2014 lmao?
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Nanook friendica
@Samueru The history goes back way before 2014 and your summation of the situation is inaccurate.
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davel lemmy (AP)

It goes much further back, and it involves a lot more Ukrainian fascism than people realize. History of Fascism in Ukraine: Part I, Part II, Part III, Part IV

.
Ukraine, and Europe in general, didn’t maintain this post-WWII fascism all on their own, though: The US. bears significant responsibility. The U.S. Did Not Defeat Fascism in WWII, It Discretely Internationalized It

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Nanook friendica
@Samueru I find it humorous that someone would downvote me for suggesting that history goes back more than a decade. Guess they are less than ten years old and think their parents appeared out of nowhere when they were born.
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The US currently occupies a larger percentage of Syria than Russia is of Ukraine, but do go on.
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always hilarious to see nafoids show up here
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drwankingstein lemmy (AP)
The War in Ukraine Was Provoked—and Why That Matters to Achieve Peace
The shooting war in Ukraine began with Yanukovych’s overthrow nine years ago, not in February 2022 as the U.S. government, NATO, and the G7 leaders would have us believe.



So many people forget that the Ukrainian Russian conflict never really ended, the idea that it was an unprovoked invasion is absurd, (and no, before someone decides to make a braindead comment, provoked does not mean justified.) There have been many leaked videos pre-invasion of violence towards both sides, and neither side made a proper effort to actually quell it, only surface level bullshit inorder to take the "moral ground:

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davel lemmy (AP)
Westerners usually don’t know any of that, because Western governments, NGOs, and corporate media erase all inconvenient context and history. I try to point folks toward developing real media literacy
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Nanook friendica
@davel @drwankingstein All of which have their biases and really a very limited subsample of viewpoints and history.
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davel lemmy (AP)
Reporter: [REDACTED]
Reason: blatant russian nazi acct


You see the Russians are the real Nazis, not the Banderites who attacked Eastern Ukrainians for the decade before this war started.

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Nanook friendica
@davel If the world were so simple then those with single digit IQ's and no real knowledge of historical fact would be able to understand it, unfortunately it is not.
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davel lemmy (AP)

They’re not dumb; usually it’s that they live in the bubble of Western propaganda, while simultaneously believing that they haven’t been propagandized their whole lives.

People not only don't know what's happening to them, they don't even know that they don't know. — Noam Chomsky

And really, who even has the time and energy to know? It’s actually a lot of work, and we live under neoliberalism, where most of us are just trying to keep our heads above water. Plus, there’s no social or financial upside to bucking the hegemonic viewpoint.

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@davel Everyone has their own perspective but I think most people here are trying to greatly over simply a complex situation with and Noam Chomsky offers only yet another perspective and I disagree with him on the issue of world government or extinction. I don't think world government on a large scale, particularly the way it is now with no real citizenship representation, is particularly desirable.
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kbal mbin (AP)
Hello Internet commenters. Please remember that there's no rule that says you need to tell us all your gut reaction to this if you know absolutely nothing about the situation.
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Kajika lemmy (AP)
knowing nothing about the situation is indeed the problem. if only this process was more transparent...
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davel lemmy (AP)
Kernel development is for fed only.
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Nanook friendica
Those nasty Russians might reveal or remove some of our back doors.
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Montagge lemmy (AP)
Yes, those are the only two possibilities going on here
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exactly, can't forget about good old racism
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OsrsNeedsF2P lemmy (AP)
Greg sent out the patch but won't respond to mail list questions. Sad to see Linux leadership bend the knee
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madthumbs lemmy (AP)
Admittance of 'all eyes on code' being bullshit.
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Ferrous lemmy (AP)
Couldn't think of a more lemmy thread topic than one involving both Russian geopolitics and linux.
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drwankingstein lemmy (AP)
I am quite disappointed at the lack of transparency regarding this.
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penquin lemmy (AP)
Gotta have them "various compliance requirements", man, gotta have'em. Don't ask me what they are, but damnit, gotta have'em.
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