I understood it as sarcasm and they calling the “sheeple” the real conspiracy theorists, don’t you agree?

I'm just wary and concerned for those to whom this will not be apparent, and it'll affirm that phrase as valid, unquestioned. Even if they don't get that ["conspiracy theorists" is a psyop term that abuses them, dissuading due questioning authority], then maybe they'll at least get shaken out of their cognitive dissonance as they see past their prior unquestioned beliefs that government cares, media never misleads/lies, and that for profit pharma's healing them. and realising that, is why i re-shared, after weighing it up.

😀

but can we agree that something like flat earth theory or chemtrails ARE conspiracy theories?

funny guy. 😛 no, the term conspiracy theory is still a psyop term designed and deployed to dissuade questioning/investigating authorities and crooks.

Is it still "a "conspiracy"" when there are publicly traded companies offering services for, and conferences promoting deployment of, various forms of the idea? let alone theory.

I remember seeing evergreen avionics way back... i forget when now... 2004? and I thought "What gall! The people will see this and rise up.". What a fool.

and flat earth's a good thought experiment to see how far you can keep coming up with new contrivances to explain how it could be flat despite appearances to the contrary, or to shift your reference plane (like playing flatland, and trying imagine the 4th dimension and up, to imagining the 10th dimension), or simply to challenge someone to experiment to give evidence to back up their claim it's round/spherical/globe, rather than just presuming and proclaiming (like many flat earthers do ~ lol, oh the irony so many miss). it's not all just fools to be dismissed to help you feel superior; to help prevent you entertaining other perspectives. ... like the term "conspiracy theorist" does.

Okay I got it, the wording is posisonous and misleading.

I don't share that view. I don't think the phrase is pejorative. It's neutrally saying, there's a theory that there is a conspiracy.

I mean, jesus, who would have thought that GCHQ is tapping subsea cables to spy on the whole atlantean internet traffic? No conspiracy theory probably would have gone that far, but yet it's entirely true.

I like it. It needs some intellectual effort to understand it, but I see that as a quality rather than a fault.

The main issue I see is that the term “conspiracy” doesn’t really fit with the things mentioned (government cares, media don’t lie, pharma wants to cure) – at least not at first sight, because where is the secrecy that belongs to a conspiracy?

Rather take the official story about 9/11 as an example (and it has indeed been called a conspiracy theory). Bin Laden and Al Qaida would be the conspirers, acting secretly to destroy the Western way of life. A person who believes in the government, the mainstream media and Big Pharma will also believe the official 9/11 story.

It’s neutrally saying, there’s a theory that there is a conspiracy.

Bold claim. An assertion thrown out fallaciously. I strain to conceive of a use of it that is not a fallacious misdirect.

Epistemologists must utterly baulk at seeing it so rife.

I mean, jesus, who would have thought that GCHQ is tapping subsea cables to spy on the whole atlantean internet traffic? No conspiracy theory probably would have gone that far, but yet it’s entirely true.

and how casually and normalised you deploy the term. And yet, people were pointing out this was going on for decades before Snowden. ... people who would have had the label "conspiracy theorist" thrown at them by the spook agencies to discredit them and such claims, to discourage others rightly investigating the authorities to hold them to account.

because where is the secrecy that belongs to a conspiracy?

Yep. So many seem so deep into the induction that even the very word "conspiracy" (without being suffixed with theory) is now a synonym for falsehood to them. As if no one would ever conspire. As if the idea is laughable and readily dismissed without investigation. Of course no one would ever conspire, especially not when there's massive gains for them to be had. And then all manner of atrocities get to proceed, unchallenged, even unhidden, in plain sight, for those who would even bother to look, and yet so few do look, because who wants to appear like a "conspiracy theorist"?... regardless of the fact that they were not coming up with any theories, and that the plans are not only laid bare, but promoted. If you so deploy that little due diligence and follow a little casual research, as aught be respected as the duty of everybody in a democracy, then there's a whole lot of horror to face up to in the revelations.

so you think Al quaeda doesn’t exist and Bin Laden is a retard and everything was done by Falcons so they can sell more weapons and invade Iraq again?

Quite the spurious leap and characterisation. A rhetorical style befitting of shilling for the man. Heh.

"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."

"Let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories concerning the attacks of September the 11th"

"A lone gunman."

lol.

Do tell, how does one fit a 757 in a pentagon shaped hole?

n_n

y'know?

(and in context: scrapsfromtheloft.com/2017/08/… / (Revelations, so relevant today, in so many ways, tragically prophetic in our ignorance and capitulation, right down to the "pretty soon we'll all be locked in our homes")).

"back and to the left, back and to the left, back and to the left... "

"...And that's why Kennedy's head~ blew~ off~~ What time's gladiators on? Are we missing it? whoo-wee, I'm so glad we're free."

A yes or no would have done... You didn't answer my question.

I try to word it neutrally: Do you think not Al Quaeda and bin Laden did 9/11? If so, who do you think did it?

I just wanna understand, no hard feelings dude.

A yes or no would not do to such a troll question.

I answered sufficient.

... and if you're asking again, it seems you didn't quite grok the meaning of:

Do tell, how does one fit a 757 in a pentagon shaped hole?

nor the rest, it would seem.

Osama Bin Laden's an interesting character, with an interesting history, an interesting tool/agent, that reveals much, if you spend some time investigating.

But further, (less ambiguously / less nebulously), if the "how to fit a 757 in a pentagon shaped hole" isnt enough, consider "pull it", building 7 (proclaimed fallen on the news when in sight over the shoulder of the reporter, text-book controlled demolition, and why (and how not)), the missing gold, the timing of execs being away, the "construction" work done in the preceding days, the fighter jets that had scrambled, told to head back... for just a few other easy pieces to broaden the picture beyond the misdirect binary did-he/didn't-he.

Lots to look into, to do your own research and thinking.

No need to rhetorically faux-interrogate others for what they think, let alone when they've already laid out sufficient spread for you. n_n

Happy websearching and contemplating. 😀

connect25lovylmq.onion/i/8a71a…

DOWN FORGET TO USE TOR BROWSER FOR EXTENSION DOMAIN IN .ONIONS LIKE THIS ONE ABOVE

@Team Reality

so you think Al quaeda doesn’t exist

Not quite. In fact I don't believe the official story, but I must admit that I don't know what happened then.

Nevertheless, the official story is about a conspiracy, whether true or not. So one might call it a conspiracy theory.

On the other hand, if not being true is essential for conspiracy theories, it may be none -- if it is true.

@Digit

Bold claim.

But this definition of "conspiracy theory" exists, namely that it is a theory that there is a certain conspiracy behind something, no matter whether it's true or not (or partly true, as tmo. are many if not most conspiracy theories).

I got it from a book by Matthias Bröckers, who treats conspiracy theories more like hypotheses than dismissing them outright. (Matthias Bröckers: Verschwörungen, Verschwörungstheorien und die Geheimnisse des 11.9.)

Yep. So many seem so deep into the induction that even the very word “conspiracy” (without being suffixed with theory) is now a synonym for falsehood to them. [...]

I'm with you there, Digit. Nevertheless one can reclaim and redefine terms. Take the insults hurled at you, and own them! So I would say that I'm a conspiracy theorist in my own understanding.

@Blutpumpe

funny guy. 😛 no, the term conspiracy theory is still a psyop term designed and deployed to dissuade questioning/investigating authorities and crooks.

XD ;P 😁 #S

yup.

when bush jr said “Let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories concerning the attacks of September the 11th”, i bet he made his cia daddy proud.

@Digit
Oh, if somebody calls me such a name, I'll just say yes, I am.

And moreover, still I have the right to tell Mr Bush jr. dubbleyou that what he advertises is a pure conspiracy theory. Bin Laden and the 40 Hijackers.

Not that I don't believe it was fundamentalists who did it, but who used them, and for what? Bin Laden, or a similar figure might have been acting as go-between, like he did in Afghanistan. Al-Qaida, as far as I know, originally was the name of the list of mudjahideen that Bin Laden recruited for fighting against the Soviet Union.

They build a world of great confusion to force on us the devil's illusion

(Bob Marley)

I dont for a femto second think bush jr really thinks that. it's an outright deception, put out there to misdirect others. so can't reliably call it a theory of his. and so, also... again:

funny guy. 😛 no, the term conspiracy theory is still a psyop term designed and deployed to dissuade questioning/investigating authorities and crooks.

;D lol. (even though, that is a better use of it, same as in the original post's image).

but then... we can pick and choose which definition of theory we go with... so maybe we can still legitimately use that psyop phrase, and keep discouraging anyone from questioning the nefarious dominator kleptocrat/oligarch plans.

#Orwell

keep discouraging anyone from questioning the nefarious dominator kleptocrat/oligarch plans.

Why would you want to do that?

As I said, I got the idea from Matthias Bröckers. His book about conspiracy theories that ttakes 9/11 as the main example is in German, though, otherwise I would have recommended it.

And if Bush doesn't think it's a lie he perfectly fits into the majority of so called "conspiracy theorists" who also believe what they are saying.

But this is indeed an interesting aspect: that someone deliberately sets complex lies into the world, so the truth is no longer easily to be seen. Some people will believe these lies and spread them. This could be the case not only concerning the official 9/11 story, but also other misleading explanations, ranging from #chemtrails to #reptilian shape shifters.

Maybe we could coin a new term: "conspiracy hypothesis", or even something without the word "conspiracy", as long as it is fit to describe the phenomenon.

I dont for a femto second think bush jr really thinks that. it’s an outright deception,

I didn’t see the full stop, and misread: “I dont for a femto second think bush jr really thinks that it’s an outright deception” -- but I see politicians as puppets rather than as real leaders, so it doesn't really make a difference.

No problem @Eileen

@Digit & all

What I tried to explain above, but apparently not in clear enough words: I think, the psy-op goes further than what Digit is saying.

It is clear that not all which is called "conspiracy theory" is the truth. There's really some weird fantasy stuff out there.

To my opinion, the psy-op counts on the existence of all the nonsense and half-sense that is -- deliberately or unknowingly -- being spread through the media. so when something true appears, people will not recognise it, but point their finger and say: "another conspiracy theory!"

So the term, as iit is generally used, works like a smoke grenade which covers both truth and lies. The more lies and half-truths are being spread (and even debunked), the better it works.

And it's somehow hard explaining all of it, and not using the word "conspiracy theory".

It is clear that not all which is called “conspiracy theory” is the truth. There’s really some weird fantasy stuff out there.

funny guy. 😛 no, the term conspiracy theory is still a psyop term designed and deployed to dissuade questioning/investigating authorities and crooks.

lol

And it’s somehow hard explaining all of it, and not using the word “conspiracy theory”.

cant get there from here.

#orwell

@Digit

funny guy. 😛 no

You're repeating yourself, and don't read/understand or deliberately don't react on what I'm saying. I'll end the discussion here.

You’re repeating yourself,

with reason. that, on some level, you're well aware. you keep using the psyop term as if to validate it.

it's entertaining and encouraging to see you wrestle your way free of it. 😀 i'm just holding the space.

and don’t read/understand

n_n nah.

or deliberately don’t react on what I’m saying.

or, am satirically responding to precisely what you're saying, because of the same invalid thing said, that you're not fully accepting as invalid yet, despite professing to.

I’ll end the discussion here.

always amusing and damning to see that. lol.
fresh slab of arrogance and ignorance, offered as if some virtue. XD

@Robert Dinse

is hospital a slang term for government?

An ironic term, rather... But on the other hand, "hospital" stands for "hospital". Not all patients in hospitals are sick. My whole sentence was meant to be ironic. Psychopaths have been in charge many times in history.

@Digit

satirically responding

Ok, I'll take anoher try. Maybe you don't do it deliberately.

To clear some possible misunderstanding first: I'm not denying that it's originally a psy-op term, hope you got that.

If I analyse what I wrote, I had two points I wanted to express:

1) Perhaps you're right, and the word causes confusion, so it would be better not to use it at all. It has caused some confusion between us, I would say. Though I have a positive memory of how #Bröckers' uses it in his book, where I got it from. And as hard as I look, I don't find any synonym that covers all the meanings of it.

Languages are not fixed. Words may mean different things to different people, and can change their connotation and even meaning over time. It must be possible to strip the term from its negative connotation, as Bröckers did, though probably not in all situations.

2) The term, as I see it generally used, doesn't only cover true stories that governments, big business, and whoever want to suppress. No, it stands for all kinds of complex hypotheses, truths, phantasies, ranging from serious background information about deep politics to weird theories that assume that we are all ruled by reptilian shape shifting beings from outer space. And of course, most times it is used in a pejorative way.
I think this wide range of meaning is, even if only by chancce and not by plan, part of the psy-op, thus letting true statements about politics and econmy appear beside half-truths and impossible fantasies. This is what I tried to express in these two paragraphs I wrote above (here only putting the first and last words):

To my opinion, ... the better it works.

I'm still missing your intelligent answer on this. Perhaps I didn't formulate it in an easily understandable way. If so, please tell me.

And as hard as I look, I don’t find any synonym that covers all the meanings of it.

funny guy. 😛 no, the term conspiracy theory is still a psyop term designed and deployed to dissuade questioning/investigating authorities and crooks. ... and replacing it with words to the same effect is no remedy. the divisive barb must be extracted from deeper in your mind than the surface layer of interchangeable words.

;D

I think this wide range of meaning is, even if only by chancce and not by plan, part of the psy-op,

spares me pointing that out. 😀 gets many babies thrown out with bathwater, ~ and bathwater that was intentionally dirtied specifically to have the baby thrown out with it.

To my opinion, … the better it works.

I’m still missing your intelligent answer on this. Perhaps I didn’t formulate it in an easily understandable way. If so, please tell me.

*salutes* Yes Sir! Here's my answer on this. ;) i dont think you need seek validation from others/me in-general/on-this. ;) but ok, to elaboratively/additively confirm seeing similarly, yes, the more agent provocateurs, the worse the impact... perhaps... maybe up to a point, then incredulity starts seeping in from the cracks under the pressure. there be many strategies deployed... many reasons, many effects. seeking the cartoon simplicities is itself indicative of having succumbed to manipulative mind maps imposed. no one has the answer. yet the truth is out there. ;)

spares me pointing that out. [...] bathwater that was intentionally dirtied specifically to have the baby thrown out with it.

So at least you got my second point now.

i dont think you need seek validation from others/me in-general/on-this

I don't need validation from anyone. I just had some things I thought were fit to share in this thread. Had you said nothing, I would have been silent.
Calling someone a "funny guy", and repeating the same sentence over and over again as if the other one hadn't read and understood it the first time, while on the other hand ignoring valid things they have to say is bad behaviour, to say the least.

satirical tool

That's why I try to keep serious when the tone of the other person is serious. See above how I failed with my irony. And why do you apologise when at the same time you tell me you want to go on with it?

yet the truth is out there

The truth is everywhere. I find it easier to grasp in my neighbourhood. The truth is, for example, that we have different opinions on whether it's legitimate to use the term "conspiracy theory" or not, but, as it turned out, share the same view on the character of the psy-op it's part of.

I have my own thoughts about the world "out there". If it comes to politics I know that it's unlikely to get any proof for anything. In fact, the only things I can be sure of are the ones I experience myself. All else is more or less unsure, and, yes, one could use that psy-op term for it.

If we know the truth, theories become facts.

I don’t need validation from anyone. I just had some things I thought were fit to share in this thread.

yeah, that coulda been a dick-headed thing to say on my part. i took a gamble.

Calling someone a “funny guy”, and repeating the same sentence over and over again as if the other one hadn’t read and understood it the first time, while on the other hand ignoring valid things they have to say is bad behaviour, to say the least.

yeah, but, you get why, right?

because you kept walking into the trap... saying the thing that had already been established as the psyop phrase, re-perpetrating. ... even when acknowledging it is... which was amusing and perfect setup for the recurrent joke. juicy irony and satire, if you like the comedies. 😁

satirical tool

you're a satirical tool. ;] [jk, thought maybe cruder humour might please some. lol] ;]

That’s why I try to keep serious when the tone of the other person is serious.

& deadpanners may indeed chase each other's tails around and around.

the most serious topics censored are often found spoken of in comedy. cui bono censor.

See above how I failed with my irony.

well if it was all intentional, then well played, setting up the joke setups for the recurring jokes is laying the comedy on thick. (stewart lee and richard herring would be proud). though some of the questions, and the progression, suggests to me it was legit unwitting re-perpetration of psyop (or witting, but, benefit of the doubt's always(?) worth hanging on to, if only for some deadpan ~ bold and brave, in faith of wit and wisdom of the audience/spectator/reader, lest falling into poe's law). them insidious memetics hide insidiously and spread insidiously. in them psyops. whether recognised as intentionally created or not yet, or the not at all.

And why do you apologise when at the same time you tell me you want to go on with it?

to save you and anyone else from the psyop, to retain the curiosity and the duty to investigate what's going on in the world, to disuade a paradigm of shutting yourself down obediently, to not make trained automatons of you, but conscious astute aware beings retaining faculties of clear thought, not duped into becoming unwitting destroyers and poisoners of your siblings, to help you see those who would attempt to poison and destroy you and your siblings by having you poison and destroy each other while thinking you're saving them.

"villains who twirl their mustaches are easy to spot. Those who clothe themselves in good deeds are well camouflaged."

"nobody involved in anything nefarious thinks of themselves as nefarious".

not to deny you the right to use that term, but to allow you your own decision with all infinite potential retained, ... "a fully informed public" as some more familiar language ascribed to aspire to the same i'm trying to word carefully [trying avoid orwellianized language, in english, is not easy, especially since the further accelerations of perversions by the perverted for imbalanced misconceptions of gains]. tis a minefield. or mindfield. so thanks for playing out here, for living, engaging. good to have a good think. 😀

The truth is everywhere. I find it easier to grasp in my neighbourhood. The truth is, for example, that we have different opinions on whether it’s legitimate to use the term “conspiracy theory” or not, but, as it turned out, share the same view on the character of the psy-op it’s part of.

I have my own thoughts about the world “out there”. If it comes to politics I know that it’s unlikely to get any proof for anything. In fact, the only things I can be sure of are the ones I experience myself. All else is more or less unsure, and, yes, one could use that psy-op term for it.

If we know the truth, theories become facts.

that started well, but then after reading "the truth is", everything else just became noise. .... like the high pitch squeel some shops and places play to scare away young people who can still hear those frequencies, "the truth is" is a triple wammy of alarm bells there... big mountain of incredulity to get past, seeing that big mountain of certainty... "the" just the one, the singular "truth", the thing to seek, and to run away from those who have claimed to have found it, "is", sure certain. n_n

and wow yeah...

“conspiracy theory” or not, but, as it turned out, share the same view on the character of the psy-op it’s part of.

so, you're gonna keep using it... despite knowing to use it is to perpetrate the psyop on others... ?

or is this a part of the shared same view on the character of the psyop its part of that has not really sunk in for you yet, past the cognitive dissonance?

it's kinda like me with plastic packaging... i see myself putting more of it in the plastic bins, as if i know not to where, but i do know well enough at least, that it's going to the environment in which we're all in and depend upon. but i keep doing it. a way of not injuring myself on the stress of the horror facing me/us from all around. it's mal-adaptive. such things we need be aware of, if we are to find tractionable remedy. remedy, to all this re-perpetration, this bully's victim becomes bully, this dog-eat-dog race-to-the-bottom, chicken-and-egg-problem, victim co-perpetration regeneration. the more we face it, the more we can find the easy path of taking a comfort fast, to see what's out there, what horrors are in reach of mends, simply if one transcends.

(and since that ends on a lyrical rhyming quality, you know it's much more true... ... noh, the silly folly of our not-perfect logical grok of reality sensibilities and psychologies, manipulable bio-chemical physiological lenses. beneficial to have some several layers and angles of meta-awareness. see more traps, avoid more traps. & trigger traps to trap the trapper to untrap the forest.)

and since we keep yackin about truth... and i've started quoting things... here's another fave quote, relevant here...

"There's no shame in the truth."

(((which is also nice when you hear it garbled on repeat or as a morphing mantra, and it becomes "there's gno-shaman, the truth", or even "there snow shaman, the truth". hehe.)))

yeah, but, you get why, right?

Probably to show how strong your opinion is that the term is part of the psy-op and nothing else and cannot be used differently. I do respect that, though I don't share your view.

Why you ignored what else I had to say, I don't know. Perhaps telling me about the word was too important for you, so the other stuff I had to say somehow vanished into the shades. But on the other hand I know I'm not easy at formulating my thoughts, so that might have played a part, too. That's why I tried to get an order into what I had said.

satirical tool / serious

I'm an artist and no politician... which might be my main fault.

Being serious when the other one is is a sign of mutual respect, which we need in these times. Humour is often not understood (my experience).

irony

Not all was meant to be ironic. I was referring to the "hospital" part only. So you can spare your praises for another occasion.

trained automatons

I cannot hold back the fact that it was you who to me seemed somehow like a "trained automaton", repeating that one sentence like a mantra again and again.

Being cautious with one's language. Well I try to be. If one aims to use a term like "conspiracy theory" and not to fall into the psy-op trap, one will have to define it well to strip the negative connotations. I think, Bröckers has done so in his book. Peter Dale Scott, I believe, is another person who used it, though I'm not sure. He definitely uses the term "conspiracy" in the title of one of his books (The War Conspiracy).

noise

I'm probably not a good writer concerning politics, though I see myself as quite a critical reader. I'm more of a poet. I wanted to express that I'm not so much into what's happening far away, things I have no proof for.

To stay with the topic: We can see the outcome of those politics in everyday life. I'm asking myself if it is really necessary to deal with the other stuff, or if it is not enough to know that we know nothing.

"The Truth" not with capital letters. If I know what I say is true, it will stop being a theory, but simply become a fact (a conspiracy fact, if you want), even if only for me, the one who has the proof.

so, you’re gonna keep using it… despite knowing to use it is to perpetrate the psyop on others… ?

See above. I don't think it will in all cases "perpetrate the psyop on others", but it depends on how you use it. This is the point where our opinions are not the same. Language is flexible. Take the terms of the enemy and use them successfully to positive ends. We won't get them out of the world anyway. Throw them back at the ones who coined them, and you'll have won the battle, saying: "Yes it is us who are spreading conspiracy theories, but also you! Now whose theories make more sense?"

The truth is an offence, but not a sin.

Bob Marley (Yes I'm a fan)