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in reply to BR 549 ☎

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

John Ervin

@BR 549 ☎ There really weren't that many total lockdowns, the only ones I remember were in China and maybe Japan (I don't remember). There weren't that many lockdowns in the US, certainly not in Florida. Partials yes, even here in Florida. I mean Florida is famous in the US for having fewer restrictions than other places and we seem to be being rewarded with higher Covid rates. Figure that
in reply to Nanook

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

John Ervin

@Robert Dinse Well, I didn't blame it on you nor compare it to New York. I think stupid things were done in New York and in Florida. I usually feel that the stupid things are basically related to ignoring the experts (Fauci and CDC) recommendations. I understand that keeping the economies going are very important too and that a balance needs to be made. Finding the right balance point is the job of our leaders.
in reply to Nanook

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

John Ervin

@Robert Dinse I wouldn't say florida didn't do anything, Most stores require mask wearing and have hand sanitizer and most people are following social distancing (except when they aren't), Restaurants are open, but putting people further apart and sanitizing tables between customers etc. We do have a lot of assholes who don't follow the guidelines, but the rest of us just try to stay away from them.
in reply to BR 549 ☎

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

John Ervin

@BR 549 ☎ exactly, you are right, they were trying to keep people apart in an imperfect situation, like they didn't have the equipment or enough of it at first. Cruise ships at sea, they didn't want to bring a bunch of infected people to port w/o knowing what to do about them since there were no systems set up to handle them. I remember people freaking out about HIV at first when we didn't totally know what caused it (well sexual relations) and how to treat it.

The best bet currently for Covid is the old standards, Wash Hands, Stay away from people in crowds especially, wear masks when out and about especially in crowds and the new thing... get vaccinated.

in reply to John Ervin

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

BR 549 ☎

@John Ervin washing hands is pretty much pointless, it is a respiratory virus and spread by airborne particles. studies have shown that spreading by contact with surfaces is unlikely.

and, infected people were put into close contact with uninfected people, even as hospitals sat empty. like I said before, it is as if the authorities were trying to spread the virus and boost the pandemic.

today, we still have 'pandemic' in the news every single fucking day, and a lot of schools are still closed -- even though we know that children's young immune systems can shrug off this virus with slight or no symptoms, 99.9+% of the time. and deaths by all causes were no more in 2020 than in previous years, within the limits of statistical noise. by now, it's just a clusterfuck of 'scientists', bureaucrats, and news/propaganda outlets.

as for the jab, you decide what's best for you. it either works or it doesn't work, you can't have it both ways. please note that they are experimental, still being distributed under EUA.

This entry was edited (4 years ago)
in reply to BR 549 ☎

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

John Ervin

@BR 549 ☎ The info about Covid being primarily airborne is relatively new I think, like in the past couple of days they've been talking about it. So, you could be right about that. It could be that washing hands is less important. The articles I browsed said "Primarily" and I see that other articles mention the Lancet article. I would still follow the lead of Fauci and the CDC. If the mode of transport is now believed to be Airborne, then they will probably change what they are emphasizing. Sounds like masks are a good idea then.
in reply to Nanook

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

BR 549 ☎

@Robert Dinse @John Ervin the rest of that '99.9' sentence was about young immune systems. children do not get this disease, it isn't about recovery. if they succumb to it for whatever reason, they may get sick, with all the symptoms including neurological damage and 'long covid', but it is rare for a child exposed to it to even have symptoms.

maybe I should not have written out '99.9' because it has us quibbling over decimals. bottom line is, there have been historical flu outbreaks that were orders of magnitude worse, in terms of the percentage of population killed. for children, it is like another cold (mostly) -- for old farts like myself, it's more like a bad case of flu -- and us old farts also die of flu.

I am likely to get a flu shot if my doctor offers it, but the bureaucrats are pushing this vaccine so hard, and the Orwellian 'vaccine passport' so hard, it is obvious that there is another agenda behind it. and all you Karens can stop whining that I'm killing YOU, because MY life on the line -- if you got your jab, you'll be safe, all the 'experts' are telling you. I am not inclined to trust the megacorporate giants being bankrolled by oligarchs who have plainly stated on video that they think the planet is overpopulated. and then go on secret camping trips to worship an owl with the other oligarchs.

This entry was edited (4 years ago)
in reply to John Ervin

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

Nanook

@John Ervin @BR 549 ☎ Wearing masks only reduces your risk 1-1/2 to 2%, and I suspect if you account for the psychological effects, people believing they are safe and thus getting closer to others than they might otherwise, it probably increases risk.

For me it is the neurologically damaged that concerns me more than the deaths, and both the virus AND the vaccines seem to be causing neurological damage.

This entry was edited (4 years ago)
in reply to Nanook

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

John Ervin

@Robert Dinse @BR 549 ☎ I think the strength of Masks is not preventing you from getting Covid19, it's preventing other's (who are wearing masks) from spreading it to you. It's more to prevent their coughs from spewing the virus many feet from their bodies if they cough or sneeze. At least that's what I've heard. Source control In the test in Denmark there were 16% few cases in the mask wearing group but that was non-statistically significant difference for the number of people in the study. I think this is where your Stats came from. Remember what I said about Science. I'll still go with the recommendations of Fauci and the CDC.

webmd.com/lung/news/20201119/h…

in reply to Nanook

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

BR 549 ☎

@Robert Dinse @John Ervin

For me it is the neurologically damaged that concerns me


yeah, same here. apparently the virus itself does not attack nerve tissue (although there are some wild claims that it makes prions) ... the damage is from the inflammatory aftereffects of the virus. but it is damage, just the same. there have been reports all along about losing taste and smell, a very disturbing neurological symptom, along with fatigue and 'brain fog'... in addition to the thromboses.

interestingly, by the time these inflammatory symptoms appear, the virus is mostly, or all, gone. your immune system has kicked out the virus, but it left behind some weird polypeptide toxins and/or scraps of RNA that code for weird toxins.

not prions, but things the virus evolved to confuse immune system signaling pathways -- immunoglobulin agonists and antagonists. there are some three dozen or so interleukins, small proteins used by different white blood cells to signal each other.

if a wild virus does nothing to deter the immune system, it is quickly extinguished.

in reply to BR 549 ☎

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

Nanook

@BR 549 ☎ @John Ervin While that is true, it is interesting how HIV expressed an antigen that was also present on CD-4 cells causing the immune system to target itself, while the covid-19 virus seems to cause an explosion in type 1 macrophages causing all sorts of tissue damage through the normal mechanism of secretion of NO and other reactive oxygen species, but an inadequate type 2 macrophage which normally promote wound healing, even though type 2 macrophages are triggered by cytokines which seem to be overabundant. The spike protein of HIV and Covid-19 are similar but seem to target different cell groups but both seem to target at least one specific cell type of the immune system.
in reply to Nanook

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

BR 549 ☎

@Robert Dinse @John Ervin
interleukins = immunoglobulins => cytokines
(actually cytokines is a more inclusive term, essentially "molecules that do things, powered by ATP")
and yes, NO is another small signaling molecule that is part of inflammatory cascades. its half life is very short, in the cell-signal world. it's quite dangerous around the chemistry lab.

and many viruses have similar spikes -- if it works for them, they keep making it. Darwin at his most brutal. Corona viruses have this halo of spikes, that inspired the name -- HIV only has a few. others have other configurations, I don't know them all.

Oh, I just recalled from the virology course -- there are enveloped viruses, and non-enveloped. the non-enveloped viruses have their DNA or RNA molecule in a geometric capsule, a hard little package. they do not have spikes, but some other way of releasing their evilness into a host cell. (there are other shapes, sometimes long straight or bent cylinders) Polio virus is a non-enveloped virus -- scientists back in the '50s could crystallize it and deduce its structure using Xray crystallography. each particle exactly the same.

the enveloped viruses have a flexible lipid bilayer around them, an envelope, that resembles a cell membrane. it is made of material taken from a host cell membrane, but has additional membrane proteins, including the spikes. inside the envelope is a capsid, a typically icosahedral particle that resembles a non-enveloped virus and protects the RNA or DNA.

enveloped viruses will generally all have spikes.

This entry was edited (4 years ago)
Unknown parent

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

BR 549 ☎

@John Ervin @Felipe Lopez John, your USA Today article is another propaganda lie. it is a lie by misdirection -- the fact is Fauci DID write an article 15 years ago, lauding the antiviral properties of HCQ.

your article says Fauci did not recommend HCQ for Corona virus in 2005, which is true. (it is also true that there were no serious human illnesses caused by Corona family viruses in 2005. our present virus, whatever you think of it, did not exist in 2005).

however, HCQ is (or was until last year) a mainstay of tropical medicine. people in the tropics take it in prophylactic doses. until last year I did not know (I never lived in the tropics) that it was used against viruses as well as malaria.

now with all that said, I would prefer better medical care if I caught the coof, but there was no need to ban it back when there were no other medicines and no other information.

plainly Fauci does not care about your health, or perhaps he is trying to help out with 'overpopulation'. in any case, he should be unemployed, if not prosecuted.

in reply to Nanook

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

BR 549 ☎

as for the old article about HCQ, it was my impression Fauci wrote it back then, maybe not. but anyhoo, HCQ is a derivative of quinine, which is a natural material extracted from the bark of certain trees (very much like aspirin). when Europeans were colonizing the planet several centuries ago, the natives shared these herbal remedies. much later, of course, the Bayer company made a fortune on synthetic aspirin -- Zyklon-B was not their only claim to fame. (IG Farben was broken up after WWII, spun off, went through some name changes, and now everything is merged back up into Bayer -- a whole lot like AT&T but worse)

anyhoo, also like aspirin, quinine is a generic medication whose mechanism is not entirely known. in the tropics, people take it for tropical diseases without regard to what precise disease threatens them. also like aspirin, its beneficial effects are weak and limited, but still worthwhile for an improvement in symptoms. like I said, I wouldn't want it as there are better treatments available now. I don't think any sane person ever claimed that it kills any virus, but it does slow the spread of some viruses (by some combo of known/unknown mechanisms). The changes between quinine and HCQ affect things like shelf life, absorption through the gut, and metabolic fate. I think the anti-parasite effects are quite similar to quinine.

finally, my opinion: as for the vaccine, I'm still not cutting the 'scientists' any slack. (the bumper sticker version: science is the sport, and not the team) -- it either works or it doesn't work. side effects are similar to symptoms of the disease, it fails to prevent the spread, its benefit wears off in a few months, and it carries a small but definite risk of vaccine-related injury, including death. so, back to the lab, 'scientists', and tinker some more! this is my opinion. make up your own mind, and do what is best for you.

in reply to Nanook

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

John Ervin

@Robert Dinse @Felipe Lopez @BR 549 ☎ I'm not sure what you mean then. What do you mean by "complicit with the development of this virus". I have to admit I am just responding to messages that pop up in my email and may not see ever message in this chain of messages. I also know that fauci may have said things that he no longer believes, but "complicit"?? Convince me. Give me data that I can believe.
in reply to John Ervin

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

Nanook

@John Ervin @Felipe Lopez @BR 549 ☎ If you go to swisscows.ch (NOT Google as they cover up deep state sins) and search you will find Dr. Fauci was involved in research with corona viruses at Fort Deitrich and asked for permission to do "gain of function" research but his request was denied. So he moved his research to Wuhan for that and coincidentally where does the outbreak occur?
in reply to Nanook

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

BR 549 ☎

while I'm at it, posting semi-relevant comments to this rather chaotic discussion thread, but relevant to item 17 of the OP...

a frequent comment of mine, side effects of the vaccine are similar to symptoms of the virus...

my assertion is based on this: all, ALL, of the vaccines currently being administered under EUA, are designed to simulate an infection, but produce only the spike protein instead of the whole virus. it was an obvious vaccine target, right?

and this: apparently no one ever bothered to check whether the spike is also a viral toxin. and it is the toxin that causes blood clots (either spikes from the vaccine or from infection with the live virus). speculation about the mechanism of this toxin is probably a waste of time without relevant research.

many viruses create nasty little protein molecules that have multiple effects. a nucleocapsid that helps crystallize the viral genome into its geometric shape can also sabotage production of an interleukin to paralyze the immune system, as a (hypothetical?) example. Eva Harris and Janet Smith discuss a real example from another virus family in this episode of TWIV (starts about 14 minutes in).

well, I have some affirmation, in that KD agrees with me. KD may have found the relevant research.

Here we study the effect of isolated SARS-CoV-2 spike protein S1 subunit as potential pro-inflammatory inflammagen sui generis. We investigate the potential of this inflammagen to directly interact with platelets and fibrin(ogen) to cause fibrin(ogen) protein changes and blood hypercoagulation. We also determine if the spike protein may interfere with blood flow, by comparing naïve healthy PPP samples, with and without added spike protein, to PPP samples from COVID-19 positive patients (before treatment). We conclude that the spike protein may have pathological effects directly, without being taken up by cells.


neither KD nor I are virologists, so decide for yourself...

in reply to Nanook

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

BR 549 ☎

@Robert Dinse
this is from the (preprint) paper KD cites:

Receptor binding is certainly responsible for cell-mediated pathologies, but does not of itself explain the coagulopathies. Spike protein, can however be shed, and it has been detected in various organs, including the urinary tract (George et al., 2021). S1 proteins can also cross the blood-brain-barrier (Rhea et al., 2021). Free S1 particles may also play a role in the pathogenesis of the disease (Letarov et al., 2020, Buzhdygan et al., 2020). Free spike protein can potentially be released due to spontaneous “firing” of the S protein trimers on the surface of virions, and infected cells liberates free receptor binding domain-containing S1 particles (Letarov et al., 2020).


-- and the people who wrote the paper are real scientists.

I wonder if this preprint will suddenly disappear?

in reply to Nanook

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

BR 549 ☎

Just stumbled across this thread again, six months later.

Interesting to see how these statements have aged.

By now, we have had revelations from Rand Paul, who does have a medical degree, and more videos from Chris Martenson, not a doctor but a real smart PhD guy who knows his biochemistry. They essentially say "we told you so"..

It's looking more and more like Fauci, et al, directed the creation of this virus, and outsourced production to the Wuhan lab. Some evidence is circumstantial, but the foia'ed emails and financial records revealed by the Honorable Dr. Paul show conspiracy facts.

Whether its escape was an accident or not is sort-of unprovable, but the origin of the virus is not.

Almost every day now, we have new reports of vaccine injury. The shots are no better than a case of the disease, and may be much worse. The reports are censored from mainstream* media and remain unexamined by officials. And more prominent doctors and scientists are blowing whistles, to similar censorship.

There are a few islands of sanity in the world, in Scandinavia but the global scope of the 'great reset' persists. Australia and New Zealand are worse than ever. Canada is not far behind, but it's more sort of a 'me too' place 😉

* did I see a report the other day that CNN viewership was less than one million at one point? Tarl Warwick might be more mainstream, haha...

in reply to Nanook

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

John Ervin

I don't think any of that is true, the Shots are still documented to be much better than the disease, the shots have not been show to have any significant down sides in almost all cases and are in line with other vaccines. We still don't know if the disease is of natural origin or created In a Chinese lab. And you don't supply any documentation for any of the information that you've provided above. (cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/…)
in reply to Nanook

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

John Ervin

Um, I don't think you have any documentation for mass deaths because of the Covid 19 Vaccines. On the other hand, there is plenty of documentation for Millions of deaths due to Covid 19. If you want to commit suicide by not taking the vaccine, I'm perfectly Okay with it, personal choice and all. And yes any of us who have paid attention to the science DO know that you have no idea of the actual origin of the disease, because nobody here knows. I would suggest that you get vaccinated, it's the right thing to do.
in reply to John Ervin

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

Nanook

@John Ervin I have lots, Medicare has documented 48,000, VAERS 16,000, any vax in the past was withdrawn after 50. I know these corporate butt fucks would send shills to the Fediverse, but at least you can't shut us up here.

And the reason we know this is artificial is no natural virus could possibly have sequences from Ebola, AIDS and Covid in one virus, Ebola in particular never spread far enough to have enough reservoir to overlap the others, and then to target the ace2 receptors so perfectly in humans when it supposedly originated in an animal, no that does not happen without laboratory help.

This entry was edited (3 years ago)
in reply to Nanook

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

John Ervin

I didn't say it was natural, I said we don't know. I was trying to figure out if you were calling me a corporate shill when you said "I know these corporate butt fucks would send shills to the Fediverse, but at least you can't shut us up here." I'm happy that you have a place to talk. btw, you still didn't provide any documentation. You know, the scientists could be dead wrong and you could be dead right, but they have documentation to back up their theory and you never provide any. What they are doing is a process. I think the CDC, FDA, NIH, etc are too slow myself and too much of a bureaucracy, but I think they are honest bureaucrats
in reply to John Ervin

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

Nanook

@John Ervin Only in this country, in Israel, Iceland, and the UK which reached higher vaccination concentrations earlier than we, the vaccinated are dying in droves far outweighing the unvaccinated. And these are not counting all the heart attacks, the strokes caused by atril fibrillation that results from scarred heart muscle after myocarditis from the vaccines, the cancers caused by the suppression of CD4 and CD8 killer cells, etc.
in reply to Nanook

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

BR 549 ☎

You might as well just let it go, @Nanook , that is obviously just a single-purpose shill account. Nothing in its profile, and almost no postings to any other thread.

My analysis only differs from yours on a couple of minor points, but I think between Senator Paul and Chris Martenson, the globalist narrative (which never had any integrity anyway -- e.g. the "Schroedinger's Vax" assertion, has been demolished. It isn't science, it is religion, and at a cargo cult level.

What's even more worrisome than what they've done already, demonstrating that this shitty transfection agent can insert RNA in human test animals, is that the social engineers can have such a dramatic effect on such a large number of people... And, the next 'booster', or the fifth, can encode anything from the viral genome library, anything at all.

The various 'analyses' we have seen, have focused on foreign matter of various kinds in the jabs, but no one has taken a random sample to a sequencing machine, and done a complete verification of what it encodes.

Unknown parent

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

Nanook

@Godcast @John Ervin I'd hazard WAY more than 100%. With VAERS, only deaths that occurred after two weeks are reported because you're not considered fully vaccinated until after the second dose. The Medicare system has repor ted 48,000 and that's just among old folk or people on welfare since nobody else is on Medicare. I'd hazard the numbers are more like several hundred thousand deaths. And those are just the ones that occur in the short term. We also know these vaccines suppress CD4 and CD8 cells, killer T-cells responsible for cancer eradication, and I heard one OBGYN say the rates of endometrial cancer in his practice have shot up 20x since the VAX. It's a really bad product, but always one has to way risk verses benefit, and early on when the predominant strain of Covid was one they were actually effective against maybe it was worth it, but they don't work for shit against Delta and they don't work for more than 2-3 months, so the only benefits I can see are the profits of Big Pharma and the kick-backs the politicians are getting.
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