friendica.eskimo.com

Shoreline, WA, USA
Yeah, people kind of freaked out about aids when it first became a thing too, before people understood it and before there was any treatment. Basically, people didn't know what to do about the new disease so they kind of freaked. Kind of like how people freak out about hurricanes.
The big difference is AIDS lacked a cure and people legitimately freaked out. Back in 2005 Fauci told the world that HCQ was a great treatment for SARS. Today, with his connection with Bill Gates and other vaccine pushers (for vaccines that don't yet exist) he is saying HCQ doesn't work, is dangerous, ... See https://a42.com/pg/s/wiki/health/covid-19 for articles and links that put the picture together.
Nanook friendica
Beyond dangerous, murderous.
Nanook friendica
Fauci is in it for money. He isn't interested in "Curing" anyone.
@John Ervin @Felipe Lopez John, your USA Today article is another propaganda lie. it is a lie by misdirection -- the fact is Fauci DID write an article 15 years ago, lauding the antiviral properties of HCQ.

your article says Fauci did not recommend HCQ for Corona virus in 2005, which is true. (it is also true that there were no serious human illnesses caused by Corona family viruses in 2005. our present virus, whatever you think of it, did not exist in 2005).

however, HCQ is (or was until last year) a mainstay of tropical medicine. people in the tropics take it in prophylactic doses. until last year I did not know (I never lived in the tropics) that it was used against viruses as well as malaria.

now with all that said, I would prefer better medical care if I caught the coof, but there was no need to ban it back when there were no other medicines and no other information.

plainly Fauci does not care about your health, or perhaps he is trying to help out with 'overpopulation'. in any case, he should be unemployed, if not prosecuted.
@BR 549 ☎ @Felipe Lopez I disagree, if fauci recommends or doesn't recommend something it's based on the best knowledge at that time, So, what Fauci recommended in the past would change based on the best knowledge at the time. That's how Science works. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fauci-quote-hydroxychloroquine/
Nanook friendica
@John Ervin @Felipe Lopez @BR 549 ☎ If Fauci wasn't complicit in the development of this virus, I would be more inclined to take his advice.
@Robert Dinse @Felipe Lopez @BR 549 ☎ I don't think fauci was "complicit with the development of this virus" unless you mean something different from what I think you mean.
Nanook friendica
@John Ervin @Felipe Lopez @BR 549 ☎ You obviously have not followed the history of this if that is the case.
@Robert Dinse @Felipe Lopez @BR 549 ☎ I'm not sure what you mean then. What do you mean by "complicit with the development of this virus". I have to admit I am just responding to messages that pop up in my email and may not see ever message in this chain of messages. I also know that fauci may have said things that he no longer believes, but "complicit"?? Convince me. Give me data that I can believe.
Nanook friendica
@John Ervin @Felipe Lopez @BR 549 ☎ If you go to swisscows.ch (NOT Google as they cover up deep state sins) and search you will find Dr. Fauci was involved in research with corona viruses at Fort Deitrich and asked for permission to do "gain of function" research but his request was denied. So he moved his research to Wuhan for that and coincidentally where does the outbreak occur?
@Robert Dinse @Felipe Lopez @BR 549 ☎ Please give links or references to actual articles. swisscows.ch is just a search engine. (by the way, thanks for pointing swisscows.ch out, I'd never heard of them)
Nanook friendica
@John Ervin @Felipe Lopez @BR 549 ☎ I'm sorry I do not have time to do your research for you. I write about what interests me, I do not keep bibliographies since I assume EVERYONE has access to the same search engines I do as well as public sites like nih.gov and pub.med, john hopkins, etc.
Nanook friendica
@John Ervin @Felipe Lopez @BR 549 ☎ If Fauci wasn't complicit in the development of this virus, I would be more inclined to take his advice.
I'll go with reputable sources and the current state of the science.
Nanook friendica
If you want to die I'm okay with that, just don't expect the rest of us
to respect your lockdown or desire deaths ourselves.
@Robert Dinse On reading your message again, I decided that I"m not sure what you mean. I would normally say, staying away from people (staying at home a lot when possible), wearing a mask when out, washing hands and getting the vaccine when it's available next year was pretty middle of the road. Seems to be working as the rates are generally dropping, and I live in Florida.
Nanook friendica
@John Ervin Reputable you mean like CNN? MSNBC?
@Robert Dinse Definately not MSNBC or Fox News, CNN website maybe, CNN on TV no (obviously presenting biased info). I usually check the Media Bias chart I have. Oh, personally, I like NPR.
Nanook friendica
@John Ervin Ok, left wing "woke", yea not my preference but to each his own. I started this with the intent of promoting free speech so you won't be censored here but I suspect we also won't find much agreement.
That's pretty funny because usually I think of us as overly cautious. Also, the death rate from covid is not that high unless you happen to be over 65, oh, I'm over 65...
Nanook friendica
Sweden didn't lock down and now their death rate is lower than ours here in the United States.https://fee.org/articles/sweden-now-has-a-lower-covid-19-death-rate-than-the-us-here-s-why-it-matters/
@Robert Dinse I'm thinking that the Covid rate in Sweden took off after your messages.
Nanook friendica
@John Ervin I'm sure it was my fault, I mean what isn't?
and fee.org still says otherwise:
New data from Europe suggest Sweden's laissez-faire approach to the pandemic was far from catastrophic.

https://fee.org/articles/sweden-saw-lower-mortality-rate-than-most-of-europe-in-2020-despite-no-lockdown/
@BR 549 ☎ There really weren't that many total lockdowns, the only ones I remember were in China and maybe Japan (I don't remember). There weren't that many lockdowns in the US, certainly not in Florida. Partials yes, even here in Florida. I mean Florida is famous in the US for having fewer restrictions than other places and we seem to be being rewarded with higher Covid rates. Figure that
Nanook friendica
@John Ervin @BR 549 ☎ UK and Australia have been pretty bad in terms of lock downs.
Nanook friendica
Yes was my take early on, but comparison to New York isn't a good one since a substantial portion of New York's death was really murder, placing covid victims in nursing homes with the most vulnerable.
@Robert Dinse Well, I didn't blame it on you nor compare it to New York. I think stupid things were done in New York and in Florida. I usually feel that the stupid things are basically related to ignoring the experts (Fauci and CDC) recommendations. I understand that keeping the economies going are very important too and that a balance needs to be made. Finding the right balance point is the job of our leaders.
Nanook friendica
@John Ervin Florida's death toll was 1/10th that of New York with a similar population, I think they did well ignoring Fauci.
@Robert Dinse I just checked and New York has had about 51K deaths while Florida has had about 34K. Florida has a population of 21M while NY State has a population of about 19.45M. So, I think you should check your facts. Unless you were looking at it differently than I did. I admit I only do quick google searches but I think you are kind of flailing about to make your points.
Nanook friendica
@John Ervin You are correct, my numbers were in error, memory failed me, none the less New York locked down, Florida didn't and YET, there were more deaths per capita in New York so even if my numbers are incorrect my point remains valid.
@Robert Dinse I wouldn't say florida didn't do anything, Most stores require mask wearing and have hand sanitizer and most people are following social distancing (except when they aren't), Restaurants are open, but putting people further apart and sanitizing tables between customers etc. We do have a lot of assholes who don't follow the guidelines, but the rest of us just try to stay away from them.
Nanook friendica
@John Ervin Yes but their moves allowed businesses to stay open while New Yorks did not, yet their moves resulted in fewer not more deaths as predicted by Fauci.
@Robert Dinse Yes, things said by Fauci are what they believe will happen using what they believe at that time. If you are implying that they intentionally are saying things that they (at that time) don't believe to be true, I'd say you are wrong. But as always, data and sources please.
Nanook friendica
@John Ervin I do believe Fauci WANTS along with Bill Gates, global genocide so no I do not believe he even believes what he says.
@Robert Dinse Then we totally disagree and it may not be worth having this conversation. Seems kind of paranoid.
Nanook friendica
@John Ervin Again I expected the shills would invade the fediverse, what they can't control, they will at least pollute.
since the virus is airborne, what was the point of the 'lockdowns' if they were not total? and, why were infected people not kept in negative-pressure BSL3-safe hospital rooms? why were they forced to stay on cruise ships and nursing homes in closed air spaces with the uninfected?

(one plausible answer is that the WHO and CDC were trying to accelerate the spread of the infection)
@BR 549 ☎ exactly, you are right, they were trying to keep people apart in an imperfect situation, like they didn't have the equipment or enough of it at first. Cruise ships at sea, they didn't want to bring a bunch of infected people to port w/o knowing what to do about them since there were no systems set up to handle them. I remember people freaking out about HIV at first when we didn't totally know what caused it (well sexual relations) and how to treat it.

The best bet currently for Covid is the old standards, Wash Hands, Stay away from people in crowds especially, wear masks when out and about especially in crowds and the new thing... get vaccinated.
@John Ervin washing hands is pretty much pointless, it is a respiratory virus and spread by airborne particles. studies have shown that spreading by contact with surfaces is unlikely.

and, infected people were put into close contact with uninfected people, even as hospitals sat empty. like I said before, it is as if the authorities were trying to spread the virus and boost the pandemic.

today, we still have 'pandemic' in the news every single fucking day, and a lot of schools are still closed -- even though we know that children's young immune systems can shrug off this virus with slight or no symptoms, 99.9+% of the time. and deaths by all causes were no more in 2020 than in previous years, within the limits of statistical noise. by now, it's just a clusterfuck of 'scientists', bureaucrats, and news/propaganda outlets.

as for the jab, you decide what's best for you. it either works or it doesn't work, you can't have it both ways. please note that they are experimental, still being distributed under EUA.
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@BR 549 ☎ The info about Covid being primarily airborne is relatively new I think, like in the past couple of days they've been talking about it. So, you could be right about that. It could be that washing hands is less important. The articles I browsed said "Primarily" and I see that other articles mention the Lancet article. I would still follow the lead of Fauci and the CDC. If the mode of transport is now believed to be Airborne, then they will probably change what they are emphasizing. Sounds like masks are a good idea then.
Nanook friendica
@BR 549 ☎ @John Ervin In the US, the death rate is 1.8%, so NO NOT 99.9% of the time.
@Robert Dinse @BR 549 ☎ I'm not sure what you are referring to. I know that death rate is about that level.
Nanook friendica
@John Ervin @BR 549 ☎ I am referring to BR 549's post in which he asserts 99.9% recovery rate, not in the USA.
@Robert Dinse @BR 549 ☎ The quick search I did didn't specify which country the results were from and it's hard to get good stats, but their estimate was that the recovery rate from Covid 19 was between 97% and 99.75%.
https://www.webmd.com/lung/covid-recovery-overview#1
Nanook friendica
@John Ervin @BR 549 ☎ World wide there have been 141 million cases, and 3 million deaths, this is a death rate of 2.1% or a recovery rate of 97.9%, but moreover of those recovered 1/3rd have some degree of permanent neurological damage.
@Robert Dinse @BR 549 ☎
That seems high, most people who recovered didn't even know they had the disease. Do you have a source for that stat? I know that older people (like in their 70's) are more likely to suffer from this on recovery, but what I read says a small number suffer from neurological damage.
Nanook friendica
@John Ervin @BR 549 ☎ I'm sorry I do not remember the source, it was a very recent discovery. Granted not all severe sometimes just something as tingling in toes or fingers, other times bells palsy or more severe.
@Robert Dinse @John Ervin the rest of that '99.9' sentence was about young immune systems. children do not get this disease, it isn't about recovery. if they succumb to it for whatever reason, they may get sick, with all the symptoms including neurological damage and 'long covid', but it is rare for a child exposed to it to even have symptoms.

maybe I should not have written out '99.9' because it has us quibbling over decimals. bottom line is, there have been historical flu outbreaks that were orders of magnitude worse, in terms of the percentage of population killed. for children, it is like another cold (mostly) -- for old farts like myself, it's more like a bad case of flu -- and us old farts also die of flu.

I am likely to get a flu shot if my doctor offers it, but the bureaucrats are pushing this vaccine so hard, and the Orwellian 'vaccine passport' so hard, it is obvious that there is another agenda behind it. and all you Karens can stop whining that I'm killing YOU, because MY life on the line -- if you got your jab, you'll be safe, all the 'experts' are telling you. I am not inclined to trust the megacorporate giants being bankrolled by oligarchs who have plainly stated on video that they think the planet is overpopulated. and then go on secret camping trips to worship an owl with the other oligarchs.
This entry was edited (2 months ago)
@BR 549 ☎ @Robert Dinse We probably agree that there are agendas that we suspect but don't know about. For instance I wonder if there is a cabal of people behind the republican efforts in the US to limit voting for Democrats and Minorities. So many Gun massacres lately, I wonder if there isn't a cabal of people promoting that too.
Nanook friendica
@John Ervin @BR 549 ☎ un.org used to have Agenda 21 on their website. If you had read it while it was still there, (I have), then so much of what is happening now would not be a mystery.
Nanook friendica
@John Ervin @BR 549 ☎ Ah glad to see it's back. If you read the document you should recognize much that is going on around you now.
@Robert Dinse @BR 549 ☎
What about Agenda 21 get's your attention. The PDF is 351 pages.
Nanook friendica
@John Ervin @BR 549 ☎ The end goal is to confine the worlds population to 3% of the Earth's land, have us all on vegan diets in six foot square apartments without heat or AC, and kill 7-1/2 billion of us to leave only 500 million or so on the planet.
@Robert Dinse @BR 549 ☎ From a brief overview of the preamble, it doesn't seem to be what I was referring to with the cabals.
Nanook friendica
@John Ervin @BR 549 ☎ You really need to read the details, not just the preamble. The preamble doesn't sound that bad, seems like laudable goals, it is how they go about accomplishing those goals where the problems lie.
This entry was edited (2 months ago)
@Robert Dinse @BR 549 ☎
I don't know, it's 351 pages and I don't know if I want to dedicate that much time.
Nanook friendica
@John Ervin @BR 549 ☎ I did at one time and I can only tell you that I see a lot of it implemented in local and state laws and policies that have only been detrimental to my local community.
Nanook friendica
@John Ervin @BR 549 ☎ Wearing masks only reduces your risk 1-1/2 to 2%, and I suspect if you account for the psychological effects, people believing they are safe and thus getting closer to others than they might otherwise, it probably increases risk.

For me it is the neurologically damaged that concerns me more than the deaths, and both the virus AND the vaccines seem to be causing neurological damage.
This entry was edited (2 months ago)
@Robert Dinse @BR 549 ☎ I think the strength of Masks is not preventing you from getting Covid19, it's preventing other's (who are wearing masks) from spreading it to you. It's more to prevent their coughs from spewing the virus many feet from their bodies if they cough or sneeze. At least that's what I've heard. Source control In the test in Denmark there were 16% few cases in the mask wearing group but that was non-statistically significant difference for the number of people in the study. I think this is where your Stats came from. Remember what I said about Science. I'll still go with the recommendations of Fauci and the CDC.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20201119/how-much-does-wearing-a-mask-protect-you
Nanook friendica
@John Ervin @BR 549 ☎ Without debating the mechanism, the point is the effectiveness according to a Danish study was only in the 1-1/2 to 2% range and I suspect the psychology overrides that, i.e., people wearing masks believe they are "safe" and so social distance less.
@Robert Dinse @BR 549 ☎ Well,as I've said, I will try to follow the guidelines and hopefully, the problem will be resolved soon between guidelines and vaccines.
Nanook friendica
@John Ervin @BR 549 ☎ One thing is clear, whether by Covid or the vaccines, a lot of people are dead, still going to die, and a lot more are going to suffer permanent neurological damage.
@Robert Dinse @BR 549 ☎
Finally, something we can agree on.
@Robert Dinse @John Ervin
For me it is the neurologically damaged that concerns me
yeah, same here. apparently the virus itself does not attack nerve tissue (although there are some wild claims that it makes prions) ... the damage is from the inflammatory aftereffects of the virus. but it is damage, just the same. there have been reports all along about losing taste and smell, a very disturbing neurological symptom, along with fatigue and 'brain fog'... in addition to the thromboses.

interestingly, by the time these inflammatory symptoms appear, the virus is mostly, or all, gone. your immune system has kicked out the virus, but it left behind some weird polypeptide toxins and/or scraps of RNA that code for weird toxins.

not prions, but things the virus evolved to confuse immune system signaling pathways -- immunoglobulin agonists and antagonists. there are some three dozen or so interleukins, small proteins used by different white blood cells to signal each other.

if a wild virus does nothing to deter the immune system, it is quickly extinguished.
Nanook friendica
@BR 549 ☎ @John Ervin While that is true, it is interesting how HIV expressed an antigen that was also present on CD-4 cells causing the immune system to target itself, while the covid-19 virus seems to cause an explosion in type 1 macrophages causing all sorts of tissue damage through the normal mechanism of secretion of NO and other reactive oxygen species, but an inadequate type 2 macrophage which normally promote wound healing, even though type 2 macrophages are triggered by cytokines which seem to be overabundant. The spike protein of HIV and Covid-19 are similar but seem to target different cell groups but both seem to target at least one specific cell type of the immune system.
@Robert Dinse @John Ervin
interleukins = immunoglobulins => cytokines
(actually cytokines is a more inclusive term, essentially "molecules that do things, powered by ATP")
and yes, NO is another small signaling molecule that is part of inflammatory cascades. its half life is very short, in the cell-signal world. it's quite dangerous around the chemistry lab.

and many viruses have similar spikes -- if it works for them, they keep making it. Darwin at his most brutal. Corona viruses have this halo of spikes, that inspired the name -- HIV only has a few. others have other configurations, I don't know them all.

Oh, I just recalled from the virology course -- there are enveloped viruses, and non-enveloped. the non-enveloped viruses have their DNA or RNA molecule in a geometric capsule, a hard little package. they do not have spikes, but some other way of releasing their evilness into a host cell. (there are other shapes, sometimes long straight or bent cylinders) Polio virus is a non-enveloped virus -- scientists back in the '50s could crystallize it and deduce its structure using Xray crystallography. each particle exactly the same.

the enveloped viruses have a flexible lipid bilayer around them, an envelope, that resembles a cell membrane. it is made of material taken from a host cell membrane, but has additional membrane proteins, including the spikes. inside the envelope is a capsid, a typically icosahedral particle that resembles a non-enveloped virus and protects the RNA or DNA.

enveloped viruses will generally all have spikes.
This entry was edited (2 months ago)
Nanook friendica
@BR 549 ☎ Well who is the major investor in Moderna and Pfiezer? Bill Gates, and who made the largest single contributions to the WHO and CDC? Bill Gates... Follow the money.
@Robert Dinse @BR 549 ☎
The top shareholders of Moderna are Robert S. Langer, Stéphane Bancel, Noubar B. Afeyan, Baillie Gifford & Company, and Flagship Pioneering Inc.

The three largest shareholders of Pfizer, J&J and Merck are Vanguard, SSGA and BlackRock,

I don't see Bill Gates or Microsoft on these lists. Easy to check.
@Robert Dinse @BR 549 ☎ I forget why we are talking about Bill Gates. Yes he's related to one of the Vaccines? Not sure what the point is.
Nanook friendica
@John Ervin @BR 549 ☎ He's related to two of them and those two are permitted to be used in spite of 2700 deaths and 175,000 injuries while Astra-Xenica and Johnson and Johnson are not despite far fewer adverse events.
@Robert Dinse @BR 549 ☎ Sources and data that seems reputable please.
Nanook friendica
@John Ervin @BR 549 ☎ This you can even find on google.
as for the old article about HCQ, it was my impression Fauci wrote it back then, maybe not. but anyhoo, HCQ is a derivative of quinine, which is a natural material extracted from the bark of certain trees (very much like aspirin). when Europeans were colonizing the planet several centuries ago, the natives shared these herbal remedies. much later, of course, the Bayer company made a fortune on synthetic aspirin -- Zyklon-B was not their only claim to fame. (IG Farben was broken up after WWII, spun off, went through some name changes, and now everything is merged back up into Bayer -- a whole lot like AT&T but worse)

anyhoo, also like aspirin, quinine is a generic medication whose mechanism is not entirely known. in the tropics, people take it for tropical diseases without regard to what precise disease threatens them. also like aspirin, its beneficial effects are weak and limited, but still worthwhile for an improvement in symptoms. like I said, I wouldn't want it as there are better treatments available now. I don't think any sane person ever claimed that it kills any virus, but it does slow the spread of some viruses (by some combo of known/unknown mechanisms). The changes between quinine and HCQ affect things like shelf life, absorption through the gut, and metabolic fate. I think the anti-parasite effects are quite similar to quinine.

finally, my opinion: as for the vaccine, I'm still not cutting the 'scientists' any slack. (the bumper sticker version: science is the sport, and not the team) -- it either works or it doesn't work. side effects are similar to symptoms of the disease, it fails to prevent the spread, its benefit wears off in a few months, and it carries a small but definite risk of vaccine-related injury, including death. so, back to the lab, 'scientists', and tinker some more! this is my opinion. make up your own mind, and do what is best for you.
@Robert Dinse @Felipe Lopez @BR 549 ☎ Not sure which of us you are referring to. Could be said that we are shilling for different sides of the issue.
while I'm at it, posting semi-relevant comments to this rather chaotic discussion thread, but relevant to item 17 of the OP...

a frequent comment of mine, side effects of the vaccine are similar to symptoms of the virus...

my assertion is based on this: all, ALL, of the vaccines currently being administered under EUA, are designed to simulate an infection, but produce only the spike protein instead of the whole virus. it was an obvious vaccine target, right?

and this: apparently no one ever bothered to check whether the spike is also a viral toxin. and it is the toxin that causes blood clots (either spikes from the vaccine or from infection with the live virus). speculation about the mechanism of this toxin is probably a waste of time without relevant research.

many viruses create nasty little protein molecules that have multiple effects. a nucleocapsid that helps crystallize the viral genome into its geometric shape can also sabotage production of an interleukin to paralyze the immune system, as a (hypothetical?) example. Eva Harris and Janet Smith discuss a real example from another virus family in this episode of TWIV (starts about 14 minutes in).

well, I have some affirmation, in that KD agrees with me. KD may have found the relevant research.
Here we study the effect of isolated SARS-CoV-2 spike protein S1 subunit as potential pro-inflammatory inflammagen sui generis. We investigate the potential of this inflammagen to directly interact with platelets and fibrin(ogen) to cause fibrin(ogen) protein changes and blood hypercoagulation. We also determine if the spike protein may interfere with blood flow, by comparing naïve healthy PPP samples, with and without added spike protein, to PPP samples from COVID-19 positive patients (before treatment). We conclude that the spike protein may have pathological effects directly, without being taken up by cells.
neither KD nor I are virologists, so decide for yourself...
Nanook friendica
@BR 549 ☎ It would seem to be A factor if not THE factor.
Nanook friendica
@BR 549 ☎ And Hey Bill Gates is no virologists either.
@Robert Dinse
this is from the (preprint) paper KD cites:
Receptor binding is certainly responsible for cell-mediated pathologies, but does not of itself explain the coagulopathies. Spike protein, can however be shed, and it has been detected in various organs, including the urinary tract (George et al., 2021). S1 proteins can also cross the blood-brain-barrier (Rhea et al., 2021). Free S1 particles may also play a role in the pathogenesis of the disease (Letarov et al., 2020, Buzhdygan et al., 2020). Free spike protein can potentially be released due to spontaneous “firing” of the S protein trimers on the surface of virions, and infected cells liberates free receptor binding domain-containing S1 particles (Letarov et al., 2020).
-- and the people who wrote the paper are real scientists.

I wonder if this preprint will suddenly disappear?
not sure what 'factor' you are talking about.
Nanook friendica
@BR 549 ☎ In causing clotting by vaccines and viruses alike, not to mention other inflammatory symptoms.
@Robert Dinse no doubt the virus has other dirty tricks, and there's other nasty stuff in the vaccines.

however 'spike' is one thing that ALL the current vaccines have in common. some are DNA, some are RNA, some are Adenovirus pseudovirions and some are artificial nanoparticles. but all of them are causing spikes to be made.
So long Farewell, Aufwiedersehn, Goodbye--, Goodbye..., Goodbye..., Goodbye...

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